New Parker/Hale 1858 for deer hunting

[Hunter300sav]

I've been contemplating the purchase of an 1858 Enfield for deer hunting and I'm thinking the Parker/Hale is the one I want to buy! I like the idea of the large caliber minie bullets and the calibrated sights! Years ago I fired an 1853 model made by Armi Sport using 55grs of FFFg Goex and an old style minie! I believe the weight of the minie was 500 grains! At 100yds off hand I fired at a bowling pin and hit it and it shot completely through both sides :shocked2: My question is are the Parker/Hale muskets accurate? and are they worth the extra money over some of the cheaper Italian made muskets out there? I know they are also made in Italy now but from what I gather the barrels are still made in England! If any of you have any experience with these rifles I'd sure like to hear from you! thanks Wes

 

[Big John]

WesB, Most of the replica military rifles are made in Italy. Armisport and Euroarms are two that come to mind, with Euro. being a little nicer. As with all repro's the accuracy is o.k (usually shoot high) and trigger pull is a beast. I hunt with a Zouave and have played with it to solve some of the problems. Parker-Hales have a good shooting reputation. For info:n-ssa look at the bulleton board.

 

[n8dawg6]

wes i dont have any experience with the 2nd generation p/h's. i know that when they came out most folks weren't very pleased with them. not sure if they have improved or not. if you can find a 1st gen in good condition, that's definitely the way to go. i have a 1st gen 1858 pattern (2-band) which i use for n-ssa competition and i love it.

that being said, i dont ever deer hunt with it. it could certainly get the job done, but i consider it to be a little too long/heavy/bulky to carry around in the woods. my t/c renegade is much more portable.

 

[Hunter300sav]

Thanks for responding so quickly fellas I guess I just need to find a guy that has one and see if he'll let me shoot it! The reason I wanted one is my sisters farm is really open and I just sit in the tree line so I don't have to worry about quick close shots much there and I thought the big Minie would act alot like the shotguns we are forced to use for deer hunting where I live and hopefully give a little more range than the smoothbore slug barrel I have been using! Plus I just think they are COOL! :grin: Again thanks alot fellas

 

[rice1817]

I had a first generation PH 1853. Although it shot very well, I did not care for the lack of drop in the stock...I had a hard time scrunching down on the sights. That being said, it was a superb deer gun! I shot the big Shiloh "stake buster" minies out of it, and they went about 600 grains. Shot a big doe at 50 yards with it. I never saw a deer flip over backwards like that. I hit her head on in the white throat patch and the bullet went all the way through and out the rear. Sure, it was heavy, but it was one heckova rifle and I regret parting with it.

 

[silverfox]

Wes The biggest problem with a PH for hunting is the military sights. If you can come up with a good set of sites it would make a great deer rifle. Mine will stay in a 4" cirlce at 100 yds. off the bench, better eyes might do better. I shoot the 510 minnie and thats plenty of power on any deer I ever saw. Next big problem is trajectory on the big minnies would be a bear after 100 yds. I hear PRB works well in them also, you might try them. You could use more powder and get flatter trajectory also. Those big .58s will kill at long range but you still have to hit a vital area.
Fox :hatsoff:
Ps I shoot NSSA so can't mess with my sites

 

[arquebus]

I have the same problem with the Enfield-type stocks.....2 or 3 shots & I have a "mouse" under my cheek that is real tender for a few days. I find the Springfield/Zouave stocks to be much more comfortable

 

[bub524]

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I thought Parker -Hale wasn't making them any more. I thought all the PHs were made in Italy now. The really nice ones were from PH in Birmingham, England, but I thought they quit that some years ago.

 

[rice1817]

Check out James River Armory. Some NSSA guys I run with swear by this guy's work. He can get you into an exact replica of most Civil War muskets, with Hoyt cut rifled barrels, for less than the price of a English Parker-Hale. If you are in or know somebody in the NSSA, you get a sizeable discount. [url] http://www.jamesriverarmory.com[/url]/

 

[skeet]

I switched to a 1858 2 band Enfield (Euroarms) a couple of years ago. My shotgun has collected a lot of dust since then. I'm totally sold on the power of the 58 caliber. I use 85 grains of RS Pyrodex and use Maxi hunters and Buffalo bullets. I used a shotgun for over 20 years deer hunting and the distance this Enfield will shoot compared to that shotgun is unreal. My first deer with it was at 150 yards and right thru the heart. They are deer slayers. I hope you find one and good hunting!

 

[skeet]

Whoops, I meant Select Pyrodex.

 

[ryoung14]

I always thought the PH Enfield Musketoon would make a good deer rifle. With its 24" barrel, it is much more portable than either the '53 or the '58. When one comes up on an auction site, I always spend some time drooling over it. But they're a bit rich for my blood; 'specially when I've already got a closet full of good deer rifles.

Sam Fadala tested a Musketoon in one of his BP loading manuals. It delivered excellent accuracy and all-round performance, as I recall. Anyone here hunt with one?
Bob

 

[MercerLake]

I have an 1853 three band Enfield by PH, shhots wonderfully. The main limits for accuracy on any of the replicas are the trigger pulls, and sights. I'd hunt more with mine,but my wife would hang my hide on the door if I scratch "her" gun. The 58 minie new style with heavier walled skirts will take much heavier charges, this will flatten the trajectory some. The sights still are the bigest limit. It would be possible to fit an "add-on" sight to the front sight and a ladder with an aperture on the rear if you didn't mind adding a hole or two in the tang. There are set triggers that can be fitted rather easily to simplify the trigger improvement and still have a "safe" trigger.

 

[Hunter300sav]

Thanks alot for the Website from James River Armory LaLongue I really appreciate it ! Their prices are very reasonable and I've heard good things about Hoyt barrels as well! I really appreciate all of you tha have responded to this topic I'm kinda new here and I've gained alot of information in just the little amount of time I've been coming here !

 

[Hunter300sav]

Thats Outstanding Skeet"!! :thumbsup: Did the Minie pass through the deer? How far did it run after being hit? Did you use the ladder sight settings to hit that far away or just the battle sight setting? I knew my theory on the Enfield had merit :grin: Your post just conformed my theory :winking: Thanks for your encouraging post :hatsoff:

 

[skeet]

Glad to get you stirred up. It's a great gun. You'll see other posts on this forum about people using the 1858 for Elk and other big game.
I only use the battle sights. 60 yards or less I have to aim low, 65 - 125 I put it right on, 130 - 175 yards I aim a just a couple of inches high. This year hopefully I will have time to target practice at 200 - 300 yards. It does haves some quirks I am working on also. It shoots better fouled than squeeky clean. My first shot is really off (snipers zero it's called), so I load the gun with a usual hunting load but instead of a bullet I use a cloth patch and fire. This also has insured me of no misfires later when I take my first shot at a deer. Mine likes to shoot to the left also, so I use a little kentucky windage.
Last year was my first year using it. First shot at 150 yards it vaporized the left lung and went cleanly thru the heart and right lung and exited the deer. The nice sized doe ran about 25 yards and died before she hit the ground. The next deer I shot at was another doe, this time she was running instead of standing at about the same yardage (my dad was with me this time cause he wanted to see what this "gun can do"). I hit her in the back quarter at the hip, the bullet travelled down the entire femur (leg bone) and exited around the knee. She ran by 2 other guys with shotguns (75 yards or less)and they missed all of their shots! She ran about 75 yards and died. I turned everyone in our 20 man hunting party into muzzleloader beleivers after that.
This year I was in my treestand (with a cousin from Indiana, who wanted to see what this "gun can do".) I shot a 4 pointer at 60 yards in the head ( I was aiming for the chest, but got a little excited opening morning and pulled back when i fired), dead before it hit the ground. He's a beleiver now too. My second deer was from the same treestand about 10 yards from the buck and I forgot to aim a little low and hit her clean thru the neck and she was dead before she hit the ground also. The power of the 58 is unreal. All of my shots have passed thru the animal, even the head shot (came out its ear). I have a 50 caliber Hawkins too and compared to my 58 it is like a bb gun. That gun is collecting a lot of dust too.
It's a fun gun to target shoot with too. They are 9 + lbs, so it absorbs a lot of the recoil and everyone (shotgun hunters) are surprised how little it kicks compared to a centerfire gun.
It can get heavy carrying it on deer drives, but its worth it.

 

[jan buck]

makes me want to hunt with my zouave this year. if i can get the thing sighted. mine hits high 12" and at 1o'clock. i shoot 440 gr lee real bullets in it. rb hits in the same place.

 

[Slamfire]

Jest what kinda deer wuz you thinkin' about huntin', Them Red deer in Patagonia? :haha:

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

By all means buy a James River 1858 musket. I've won a lot of N/SSA medals with mine and swear by it. The Parker Hale reproduction is simply an Italian Euroarms, and has all the warts usually associated with a reproduction arm. The James River muskets have properly contoured stocks, appropriate view and proof marks, and an oustanding Hoyt barrel. I typically shoot scores in the high 40'offhand at 50 yards, and mid 40's offhand at 100 yards.

I ordered 3 James River guns last year, and was thrilled with each one. He has the best shipping in the industry, and offers outstanding customer service. They are the most accurate out of the box guns I've ever owned. Shipping damage is almost unheard of since he ships his guns in a 3/4" thick wooden crate.

His front sights are tall and dovetailed, which is a huge advantage over the issued front sights. I've never had to drift any of the front sight more than a 1/8th inch. I file them to shoot spot on at 50 yards, and they will literally cut one ragged hole out of the X ring at that distance. Off a bench my 1858 shoots a 2" group at 100.

I've never had to trail a deer shot with the Enfield. They drop immediately. For hunting I shoot a 510 grain minie with 60 grains of FFG powder. Recoil is mild and terminal ballistics are astounding. For target work I shoot 45 grains of 2FG, and can fire a hundred rounds a weekend without ever complaining of recoil.

If you are looking for an accurate reproduction civil war musket, by all means by a James River Gun. The Richmond rifles are also amazingly accurate, and offer a very comfortable stock.