I'm a long time gun nut, but new to blackpowder. I've been supressing the desire to own a large caliber BP gun for several years now, and have finally decided to get my feet wet. I'm interested in a .58 or bigger entry level gun to throw minnie balls. I've been pointed towards Enfield or Springfield pattern muskets and Zouave's. Any questions, comments or suggestions are welcome.
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
New to BP, need advice for .58
- Thread starter Boomerdog
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Big John
45 Cal.
Enfield p53 is the best for target shooting. The Zolli Zouave is good for minies and roundball shooting
Are you interested in originals or reproductions? Original Springfields (e.g., 1861 class, which were used for mini-balls and can certainly fire round balls) are probably more readily available. If you are interested in reproductions, they are probably not all that different, except looks.
I have a Zolli Zouave and it shoots round balls great. This same barrel only shorter was used on a Buffalo Hunter. I have never shot mine with Mini's but I will some day. They can be found pretty reasonable on Gun Broker. Good Luck! Geo. T.
All of the rifled muskets you mentioned are military guns and they use military triggers.
That is to say, they were battlefield arms and precision target shooting wasn't the object.
Having a fairly stiff trigger was and the reproductions usually followed suit.
Likewise, although the Enfield sights are adjustable for range they leave a lot to be desired when it comes to precision target shooting.
That said, they are great fun to shoot.
Their recoil is rather like a low base 20 guage, maybe slightly less and because they are shooting black powder (or black powder substitutes) the recoil is not the fast, hard slap of a modern cartridge but rather, like a hard push.
They all do a pretty good job shooting a patched .570 diameter lead roundball but it needs to have a fairly thick (.018) patch to grab the shallow rifling grooves.
Minie' ball (the hollow based bullets used in these guns) need to be .002-.003 smaller than the bore. If they are smaller than that their accuracy will be fine for battlefields but rather poor for targets or metal silhouettes.
All of these rifled muskets use Musket Caps on their nipples.
If you get one of these guns be sure you can get the caps. They can be difficult to find in some areas.
That is to say, they were battlefield arms and precision target shooting wasn't the object.
Having a fairly stiff trigger was and the reproductions usually followed suit.
Likewise, although the Enfield sights are adjustable for range they leave a lot to be desired when it comes to precision target shooting.
That said, they are great fun to shoot.
Their recoil is rather like a low base 20 guage, maybe slightly less and because they are shooting black powder (or black powder substitutes) the recoil is not the fast, hard slap of a modern cartridge but rather, like a hard push.
They all do a pretty good job shooting a patched .570 diameter lead roundball but it needs to have a fairly thick (.018) patch to grab the shallow rifling grooves.
Minie' ball (the hollow based bullets used in these guns) need to be .002-.003 smaller than the bore. If they are smaller than that their accuracy will be fine for battlefields but rather poor for targets or metal silhouettes.
All of these rifled muskets use Musket Caps on their nipples.
If you get one of these guns be sure you can get the caps. They can be difficult to find in some areas.
Thanks for the replies and info guys. I've largely ignored the BP side of shooting most of my life and want to explore it now. As a beginer, I feel I should narrow my focus at first, hence the rifles I mentioned above. I'm kinda leaning towards a Zouave right now, I understand they are true rifles. I see a Parker Hale musketoon in the marketplace I'm going to inquire about though...
Thanks for the heads-up, that would certianly be easier on the wallet. I just did a quicky search and the Hy Hunter "seems" to be a decent rifle? I'm going to wait for a response for the PH posted for sale here before I do anything.
zimmerstutzen
70 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2009
- Messages
- 5,848
- Reaction score
- 1,215
I have a Zoli Zouave, in the patch box, screwed into a hole in the corner of the wood, was a conversion nipple for regular No 11 percussion caps. I switched nipples around and have had no problem using the No 11 caps over the past 30 years.
I can get musket caps or #11 locally no problem, is one prefered over the other, or is it an availability issue?
ETA- I'm also starting to shop around for powder flasks, bullet molds, etc. I bought a Knight "powder measure and flask" on my way home today for $12. I saw adjustable measures that went from 50-120gr, but I didn't buy one. Any pointers are greatly appreciated.
ETA- I'm also starting to shop around for powder flasks, bullet molds, etc. I bought a Knight "powder measure and flask" on my way home today for $12. I saw adjustable measures that went from 50-120gr, but I didn't buy one. Any pointers are greatly appreciated.
When I first got my Zouave it shot very high. The original owner had filed the front sight flat, cut a slot in the base and installed a tall sight blade. He then deepened the v-notch on the rear sight down and almost through the leaf screw. I ended up replacing the rear sight with an adjustable sight off a TC. I can get the rifle to shoot to point of aim at fifty yards at it's lowest setting. It groups real well with 60 gr of FFG, a 570 ball and .015 patches. I molded up some 575 minie balls but haven't had a chance to work up a load. It's a ton of fun. 
I would have suggested a reproduction Enfield 1858 if I'd found this post in time.
But if you're happy with what you got, that's all that matters.
I'd choose the 1858 Enfield for a number of reasons:
1. Original and authentic rifling is 1:48 inch, instead of the 1:72" of the 1853. This helps to better stabilize the Minie' bullet.
This said, some Italian-made 1853s have the 1:48 rifling. They're very long rifles, and I've always found them cumbersome. The 1858 with its 33" barrel is about my personal limit on barrel length.
2. The Parker Hale 1858 is the premium edition of this model. Parker Hale borrowed from the Tower of London the original gauges used to make this model (and other Enfields) and made a copy so close to the original that it's nearly a clone.
They even copied the progressive depth rifling, that "chokes down" from breech to muzzle.
A Minie' bullet, when fired, will have its hollowbased skirt spread out by pressure. As it moves down the barrel, in progressive depth rifling, the bore gets tighter and tighter.
This grips the bullet firmly.
Competitive target shooters in England shoot their original and Parker Hale 1853s and 1858s out to 600 to 800 yards, obtaining groups no wider than a man.
Alas, Parker Hale stopped producing these Enfield copies in 1990, and later went out of business.
The Italians bought the surplus barrels and made Enfields with progressive depth rifling for a time.
Italian Enfields made for some time may have the 1:48 twist of the Enfield, but not the progressive depth rifling.
The Parker Hale Enfields made from 1972 to 1990 bring premium prices. One in excellent condition can bring $1,400, depending on the model.
The 1858 Parker Hale Enfield is considered by British long-range shooters as the most accurate Enfield copy ever made.
3. The 1858 and 1853 Enfields, made in Italy or by Parker Hale of England, have better sights than the Springfields. The flip-up ladder rear sight is graduated for 800 to 1,000 yards.
The Springfield's flip-up leaves go out to 300 yards. I've never cared for them as they are cruder than the Enfield's.
The Enfield seems handier to me, and better balanced, than the Springfield. But this is a personal choice. You may feel the opposite.
But sounds like you got a good buy. Good way to get introduced to .58 caliber. Have fun!
But if you're happy with what you got, that's all that matters.
I'd choose the 1858 Enfield for a number of reasons:
1. Original and authentic rifling is 1:48 inch, instead of the 1:72" of the 1853. This helps to better stabilize the Minie' bullet.
This said, some Italian-made 1853s have the 1:48 rifling. They're very long rifles, and I've always found them cumbersome. The 1858 with its 33" barrel is about my personal limit on barrel length.
2. The Parker Hale 1858 is the premium edition of this model. Parker Hale borrowed from the Tower of London the original gauges used to make this model (and other Enfields) and made a copy so close to the original that it's nearly a clone.
They even copied the progressive depth rifling, that "chokes down" from breech to muzzle.
A Minie' bullet, when fired, will have its hollowbased skirt spread out by pressure. As it moves down the barrel, in progressive depth rifling, the bore gets tighter and tighter.
This grips the bullet firmly.
Competitive target shooters in England shoot their original and Parker Hale 1853s and 1858s out to 600 to 800 yards, obtaining groups no wider than a man.
Alas, Parker Hale stopped producing these Enfield copies in 1990, and later went out of business.
The Italians bought the surplus barrels and made Enfields with progressive depth rifling for a time.
Italian Enfields made for some time may have the 1:48 twist of the Enfield, but not the progressive depth rifling.
The Parker Hale Enfields made from 1972 to 1990 bring premium prices. One in excellent condition can bring $1,400, depending on the model.
The 1858 Parker Hale Enfield is considered by British long-range shooters as the most accurate Enfield copy ever made.
3. The 1858 and 1853 Enfields, made in Italy or by Parker Hale of England, have better sights than the Springfields. The flip-up ladder rear sight is graduated for 800 to 1,000 yards.
The Springfield's flip-up leaves go out to 300 yards. I've never cared for them as they are cruder than the Enfield's.
The Enfield seems handier to me, and better balanced, than the Springfield. But this is a personal choice. You may feel the opposite.
But sounds like you got a good buy. Good way to get introduced to .58 caliber. Have fun!
I just wanted to pop back into this thread and let ya'll know how much fun I'm having with this rifle! I'm only shooting PRB right now, .010 patch lubed with Ballistol works well. I've also got some .018 pre lubed pillow ticking to try. The gun shoots high/right, I don't know whether to regulate the existing rear sight or just replace it, It's a folding three leaf deal and the leaves are loose anyways. Kentucky Windage is getting old! I've almost collected enough obtainium to start casting, just need a smelting pot and decide on what first mold to get.
I had to file the rear sight down considerably to get it to shoot near point of aim at 50yds, and it's still about 4" high. I didn't get to shoot any further, the rain moved in on me yesterday evening, but I'm hoping it's gonna be pretty close at 100yds which is the maximum I feel I can use these sights for. I'm shooting 60gr of FF under a .010 PRB lubed with Ballistol. I tried some pre-lubed .018's, they seem be a little more accurate, but foul the barrel much faster. Here's a pic of some random patches, what are they trying to tell me?
59sharps
40 Cal.
Stay with musket caps. use a minnie sized .001 to.002 under bore. try working a load up somewhere between 38 - 48 of 3 fffg goex. file front sight flat to the base then notch the base. put in a pc of takk brass flat stock or what ever you preferr. once you have it grouping file to point of aim.
also S & S sell rear L leafs u can drill a pep or notch as needed.
also S & S sell rear L leafs u can drill a pep or notch as needed.
you need a thicker patch or an over powder wad
Similar threads
