New to me Colt Baby Dragoon Gen 2

[BatBoy]

I picked this used 3rd Gen Colt 1849 up at a local Blackpowder store. ***Correction, it’s a 2nd Gen Colt Baby Dragoon***

Sure it’s an Uberti, but the fit and finish is awesome. Nickel plating is not flaking or pitted like some of the third generation horror stories you read about.

It has a some handling dings and it looks like someone didn’t exactly put it back together correctly. The Uberti trigger guards and grip back strap have some spring to them. If you don’t screw them back on correctly you end up with gaps with the frame. I rectified that at the shop.

If it was ever fired, it was seldom and meticulously cleaned.

$425.00 out the door, so about the same or a little bit more than a new Uberti with tax and shipping.

Only flaw (for some reason I didn’t spot at the store) is someone did some work on the Arbor. It looks like some one drilled out and fixed a loose arbor. Oh well, that bad and good, I could have talked the guy down some if I had noticed this . However now the arbor is nice and tight and doesn’t have a gap.

Only thing weird about this revolver is there is no engraved Sam Colt signature on the back strap and I can’t seem to find the serial number in any online look ups.

 

[Stantheman86]

Is it an F Series put together by Iver Johnson?

They didn't have the Colt signature

Could someone have damaged the arbor loading the gun with it ? Just a thought.

The F series will still letter as a Colt, the Signature Series do not

The grip frame should be silver plate.

I have an F series Pocket Navy that looks like someone used it as a glove box gun

 

[BatBoy]

Is it an F Series put together by Iver Johnson?

They didn't have the Colt signature

Could someone have damaged the arbor loading the gun with it ? Just a thought.

The F series will still letter as a Colt, the Signature Series do not

The grip frame should be silver plate.

I have an F series Pocket Navy that looks like someone used it as a glove box gun

The grip frame and trigger guard is nickel plated.

 

[BatBoy]

It’s a 2nd Generation Baby Dragoon. A Colt Made Revolver. I guess we can haggle over that, but it was made to Colts specs, under Colts QC supervision etc etc. it’s a Colt in my book. Not in the same level as the first Gen, but way better than the Italian copies.

I did ok on this deal. I saved a couple of shekels compared to what has sold on gunbroker. Considering the arbor repair. It was a fair deal all the way around.

My serial number is in range and almost one of the last ones made.

 

[Stantheman86]

It’s a 2nd Generation Baby Dragoon. A Colt Made Revolver. I guess we can haggle over that, but it was made to Colts specs, under Colts QC supervision etc etc. it’s a Colt in my book. Not in the same level as the first Gen, but way better than the Italian copies.

I did ok on this deal. I saved a couple of shekels compared to what has sold on gunbroker. Considering the arbor repair. It was a fair deal all the way around.

My serial number is in range and almost one of the last ones made.

The 2nd Gens will letter as a Colt, the C series were Uberti raw parts fitted and finished by Colt employees, at the factory and the F series were Uberti parts fitted and finished by Iver Johnson. Both are technically a Colt as per the serial number. Apparently some of the guns were Armi San Marco parts but that is probably the F series.

Colt was not satisfied with the Signature Series and they don't letter as a Colt.

I have a C series 1851 Navy and the fitting is much better than my F series 3rd Model Dragoon and Pocket Navy.

If you say it's Nickel then it's nickel, but the original "Civilian " model Colts such as the Navy and .31's had a Silver plated brass grip frame. It was always thought the 2nd Gens had the same Silver plate grip frame but I have no way to test the metal on mine and it's not that important. It may be nickel , unless someone with more knowledge chimes in we won't know.

$425 is a good deal for that, they won't ever make any more 2nd Gen Colts and we can own them, and shoot them and say they're the real deal. and they are a Colt according to Colt themselves. The C series are worth more because Colt actually assembled them.

At the end of the day, they are basically Uberti kit guns that Colt , or Iver Johnson finished but they're still cool and a Colt is a Colt.

 

[BatBoy]

The 2nd Gens will letter as a Colt, the C series were Uberti raw parts fitted and finished by Colt employees, at the factory and the F series were Uberti parts fitted and finished by Iver Johnson. Both are technically a Colt as per the serial number. Apparently some of the guns were Armi San Marco parts but that is probably the F series.

Colt was not satisfied with the Signature Series and they don't letter as a Colt.

I have a C series 1851 Navy and the fitting is much better than my F series 3rd Model Dragoon and Pocket Navy.

If you say it's Nickel then it's nickel, but the original "Civilian " model Colts such as the Navy and .31's had a Silver plated brass grip frame. It was always thought the 2nd Gens had the same Silver plate grip frame but I have no way to test the metal on mine and it's not that important. It may be nickel , unless someone with more knowledge chimes in we won't know.

$425 is a good deal for that, they won't ever make any more 2nd Gen Colts and we can own them, and shoot them and say they're the real deal. and they are a Colt according to Colt themselves. The C series are worth more because Colt actually assembled them.

At the end of the day, they are basically Uberti kit guns that Colt , or Iver Johnson finished but they're still cool and a Colt is a Colt.

I’ve read they are nickel and wouldn’t silver tarnish? The metal on this Baby Dragoon is shiny. I’m saying Nickel. However, I’m no expert.

 

[Stantheman86]

The story behind these is interesting, to say the least.

There was basically one guy who got the ball rolling on these and going from memory, he was the owner of Iver Johnson and formed the Colt Blackpowder Company, who assembled the 3rd Gen Colts into the early 2000s.

I also remember back in the late 90s or so when Remington wanted a piece of this market and was going to market an 1858 Remington made totally in house, but it never happened.

The C series guns are held in a way higher regard with collectors but if you plan to shoot them, it doesn't really matter. Only mint in box, unturned examples bring high prices anyway and people aren't really beating down doors for these. I paid $800 for my C Series, high condition but fired, in box with all the papers 1851 Navy and about the same for my F Series Dragoon which was probably too much but I like it. It looks like someone dropped the cylinder and beat on the wedge with metal, and dry fired it to the point where caps don't fit, but I'll tweak it and make it a shooter. If people ask if it's a repro I can tell them no , it's a Colt. It doesn't matter if Iver Johnson assembled it.

The C series Navy is honestly identical in fit and finish to my Uberti London Navy. But, it's a Colt and was assembled by Colt employees. I'm definitely going to fire it a few times, because it's been fired but it will be something that goes to the range in a case and won't see the inside of a holster. Then probably a display case. If I want to shoot a Navy I have other ones.

The F series Pocket Navy is definitely a shooter, I've even conceal carried it. It's super accurate at 25 yards .

What we're paying for is this....

Because no one else can put COLT on a gun and never will again, on a percussion revolver.

Also, the Colts have the period style rifling

Vs the regular Uberti guns like this

Most people don't care but it's neat

 

[Gino753]

I care,..I just bought my first 1973 Colt C Series 1851 Navy, new in box

The C Series, are mainly Colt USA made parts.The Barrel is made from a Rough Uberti blank as well as ,The back strap as well as the cylinder.The frame, all the screws, the Arbour , the loading lever.are all made by Colt in the Colt factory anyway

 

[Bad Karma]

I care,..I just bought my first 1973 Colt C Series 1851 Navy, new in box

The C Series, are mainly Colt USA made parts.The Barrel is made from a Rough Uberti blank as well as ,The back strap as well as the cylinder.The frame, all the screws, the Arbour , the loading lever.are all made by Colt in the Colt factory anyway

Enjoy that pistol!

 

[Dickydalton]

I have 8 2nd Gen Colts ( 2 C Series) and 3 3rd Gen Colts. 45D had fixed both C Series 3 of the F Series and he has my RE Lee 1851 now. Jackrabbit did one 2nd Gen 1862 Police for me and a Pietta 1860 sheriff. I also bought a Walker from Jackrabbit. I love shooting every single one! After that, I have about 30 more that I shoot when I can work them in!

 

[45D]

I have 8 2nd Gen Colts ( 2 C Series) and 3 3rd Gen Colts. 45D had fixed both C Series 3 of the F Series and he has my RE Lee 1851 now. Jackrabbit did one 2nd Gen 1862 Police for me and a Pietta 1860 sheriff. I also bought a Walker from Jackrabbit. I love shooting every single one! After that, I have about 30 more that I shoot when I can work them in!

Hey Dicky!! I'll be doing a pictorial with yours this week. I'll post um here.

Mike

 

[Dickydalton]

a

 

[Gino753]

Enjoy that pistol!

Thank you, i will i just started my dream of collecting these pieces.I first learned about the Uberti and Pietta clones, then I found out about this…in that you can get an actual Colt made piece.

I bought my first pistol, witch is a Pietta 1858 Remington .44 new army in stainless steel.The fit and finish is pretty good, and the action is completley smooth…i then heard that Uberti is even nicer, and as far as looks wise, fit and finish is excellent..but then i went to try the action, and thats when i was disappointed … very rough , action with Burrs all over the hammer slot, scraping the hammer…I expected to have to take the pistol appart and Deburr it…however I found Cracks on back of the frame, behind the Arbour…Back it goes…
And I’m grabbing a 1978 Second Gen C Series Dragoon …no more clones for me

 

[Smokerr]

It seems to me if someone else made it, then assembled by Colt, it does not make it a Colt. Its not like Colt made the barrel or frame or ?????? S&W custom shop could have assembled it and or finished the parts. Would that make it an S&W?

On the other hand as long as its a nice gun and you like it, that is what really counts. Colt holds no magic for me other than the Python and that truly was the slickest revolver ever made (back in the day). As much as I love my N Frame S&W, the Python is just slicker.

It seems a group is defensive about what it is, seems no one can agree exactly on that either. Shrug. Not trying to be mean but I sure don't get it.

I have a S&W Model 41. Fantastic gun. Could care less it is S&W, its the form, fit and function that is the grabber. If Ruger had made it would not make any difference (or assembled it or whatever)

Now I grant you the Colt symbol is cool. Hard to beat that one. I love the 47 Walker (Colt). But I love it because its just such a cool iconic amazingly built gun. While the history is interesting, it could have been designed and made originally by Joe Smith and it would be a fantastic gun. So its a Uberti replica. Fine by me. Its still basically what they made back in 1847 including the mechanisms.

 

[Gino753]

It seems to me if someone else made it, then assembled by Colt, it does not make it a Colt. Its not like Colt made the barrel or frame or ?????? S&W custom shop could have assembled it and or finished the parts. Would that make it an S&W?

On the other hand as long as its a nice gun and you like it, that is what really counts. Colt holds no magic for me other than the Python and that truly was the slickest revolver ever made (back in the day). As much as I love my N Frame S&W, the Python is just slicker.

It seems a group is defensive about what it is, seems no one can agree exactly on that either. Shrug. Not trying to be mean but I sure don't get it.

I have a S&W Model 41. Fantastic gun. Could care less it is S&W, its the form, fit and function that is the grabber. If Ruger had made it would not make any difference (or assembled it or whatever)

Now I grant you the Colt symbol is cool. Hard to beat that one. I love the 47 Walker (Colt). But I love it because its just such a cool iconic amazingly built gun. While the history is interesting, it could have been designed and made originally by Joe Smith and it would be a fantastic gun. So its a Uberti replica. Fine by me. Its still basically what they made back in 1847 including the mechanisms.

Well I mean,..as far as the Second Gen “C” Series is concearned. 1971-1976

Colt made the Frame, the Cylinder pin (Arbour) all the screws and hardware ,internal parts..etc.as well as the loading rod, and Uberti sent Colt,Rough castings of the barrel, the Cylinder and the back strap, in witch Colt then machined, assembled..etc..it was cheaper for Colt to just recieve these parts from Italy, since they had the current production setup,

These pieces were then assembled , by Colt in Hartford .

So yeah, they are not 100% Colt made, but as far as .,what I’m looking for, witch is , the best , closest thing available

Then I figure this would be it..instead of $65,000

Colt thought enough of it…and made some of the most important parts, Then Commanded a quality control, for the remaining parts ,witch were subcontracted out

Since lots of manufacturers do this anyway? I figure I’m pretty happy

My 1973 Colt 1851 Navy is made really nice

 

[Bad Karma]

Well I mean,..as far as the Second Gen “C” Series is concearned. 1971-1976

Colt made the Frame, the Cylinder pin (Arbour) all the screws and hardware ,internal parts..etc.as well as the loading rod, and Uberti sent Colt,Rough castings of the barrel, the Cylinder and the back strap, in witch Colt then machined, assembled..etc..it was cheaper for Colt to just recieve these parts from Italy, since they had the current production setup,

These pieces were then assembled , by Colt in Hartford .

So yeah, they are not 100% Colt made, but as far as .,what I’m looking for, witch is , the best , closest thing available

Then I figure this would be it..instead of $65,000

Colt thought enough of it…and made some of the most important parts, Then Commanded a quality control, for the remaining parts ,witch were subcontracted out

Since lots of manufacturers do this anyway? I figure I’m pretty happy

My 1973 Colt 1851 Navy is made really nice

I think people might be surprised to know that not all manufacturers produce their own raw castings. Nor should they care if they do know. The machine work, assembly, and finish are what make the second generation guns Colt’s.

Someone tell me, are the forgings pictured S&W or Taurus? Is there a difference yet?

 

[Gino753]

I think people might be surprised to know that not all manufacturers produce their own raw castings. Nor should they care if they do know. The machine work, assembly, and finish are what make the second generation guns Colt’s.

Someone tell me, are the forgings pictured S&W or Taurus? Is there a difference yet?


View attachment 329932

Exactly,..growing up with a Master machinist showed me that.My dad would get half finished parts from other machinists that might not have had a certain tool to finish the project, that my dad invested in,…even being a small business, and the other way around.

In this situation, an Italian company started making these Pieces, before Colt decided to due there special Rerun, so it makes sense

Also..Uberti does make Beautiful parts…im just upset that my Whitneyville Dragoon, arrived absolutely beautiful on the outside, however when I went to **** the hammer, it felt really rough and was being caught by a Burr that dug a groove on the side of the hammer.Then i found these cracks behind the hammer on the frame.There is a Hairline “U” Shaped crack undernieth as well that you have to look up close to see.The internal parts were all mashed up as well.The hand seemed to be made from Pot metal and was all ground up, and mashed , from rubbing against the Arbour …

Anyway,..it’s going back and i add another $500 and grab another Second Gen Colt Dragoon, im sure im overpaying but …not by much

 

[Dickydalton]

Ruger buy parts from other companies too. Most Ruger magazines are from Europe.

 

[Gino753]

Today I am the proud new owner, of a 1978 “F” Series…1848 Colt 3rd Model Dragoon

I chose between this “F” Series Piece “Built by Iver Johnson, under Colt supervision.Instead of the “C” Series 1848 3rd Model Dragoon, built in the actual Colt plant, because the fit , ..as far as how all the parts go together, ..are in fact superior to the “C” Series made by Colt..my “C” Series 1851 Navy however is perfect.Dragoon I’ll post pics

 

[45D]

Exactly,..growing up with a Master machinist showed me that.My dad would get half finished parts from other machinists that might not have had a certain tool to finish the project, that my dad invested in,…even being a small business, and the other way around.

In this situation, an Italian company started making these Pieces, before Colt decided to due there special Rerun, so it makes sense

Also..Uberti does make Beautiful parts…im just upset that my Whitneyville Dragoon, arrived absolutely beautiful on the outside, however when I went to **** the hammer, it felt really rough and was being caught by a Burr that dug a groove on the side of the hammer.Then i found these cracks behind the hammer on the frame.There is a Hairline “U” Shaped crack undernieth as well that you have to look up close to see.The internal parts were all mashed up as well.The hand seemed to be made from Pot metal and was all ground up, and mashed , from rubbing against the Arbour …

Anyway,..it’s going back and i add another $500 and grab another Second Gen Colt Dragoon, im sure im overpaying but …not by much

Well, those aren't cracks. That "U" shaped "crack" is what you see of the arbor (no "U") which is screwed in. The round hole above it is what you see of the "staking pin" to lock the arbor. The staking pin has a staking mark across it as well. Absolutely nothing wrong there.
The hand's are cut from steel ( no "pot metal" to be found in an Uberti or Pietta. You just need to learn WHAT you're looking at.
Your 2nd Gen Colt's have ( typical) '70's action parts and Uberti's parts are closer to the originals . . . just better. I'm not knocking the 2nd Gens . . . they are what they are (complete with short arbors just like all reproductions till Pietta fixed theirs). That said, they can be made to better the originals. I'll be posting a pictorial post of that process using Dickydalton's Commemorative '51 (with a couple of it's bench buddies).

Mike