New TRS Baker Rifle

[tsmgguy]

I just purchased an unfired Rifle Shoppe Baker rifle in .62 caliber. This is my first flint lock, and I'm new to the boards to boot!

The rifle was custom made (for someone else!) in a left handed configuration. It has some of the finest workmanship that I've ever seen, with an English walnut stock and rust browned barrel.

Anyone else out there have one of these animals? I'm looking to work up a load for it, and am thinking, to start with, of using 70 gr. ffg Goex, .61 round balls, and .015 lubed cloth patches. Does that sound about right?

It came with no flint. Can someone recommend the proper size? The frizzen is 7/8" across at the widest point, and the front of the jaw screw is 1 1/4" from the face of the frizzen.

Thanks much in advance!

 

[Mike Brooks]

Probably .600 RB will work better.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Use a .600 RB, and a .020 or thicker patching. The load is about 75 grs. of FFg Goex powder. Use a OP wad over the powder. Measure the bore of your gun to determine its exact demension. Mine is overbored and I have to use 19 gauge wads. Get the correct size wads for your gun. Nominally, a 20 gauge gun is suppose to be .620, but most are .615. Mine was .626! So, use a caliper to find out what you have.

A shot load is in the order of 65-70 grains of powder and an equal amount of shot. 70 grains will give you 1 oz. of shot, more or less. 60 grains is 7/8 oz. 50 grains is shot using your powder measure settings is about 3/4 oz.

These are volume measures, so smaller shot will be closer to actual weight, while big shot may be a little light, if weighed on a scale. STay with loads that are under 1100 fps, which is close to the speed of sound. At the speed of sound, shot pellets are battered around by all kinds of wind and vaccuums affecting the column of shot, and patterns deteriorate quickly. If you stay below the speed of sound, the pattern tends to be more consistent, and closer, putting more pellets on target at the shorter ranges where open cylinger smootbores are used. This is a 30-35 yard gun, not a 40-50 yard gun as your full choked, modern cartridge shotgun may be. Shoot fast, and shoot close. Your modern gun, with its plastic shot cup, and choked barrel can keep a good pattern out to 40 yards or so,with velocities of 1200- 1350 fps.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

I have a Baker rifle 1806 made in the early 1990s
for a man who was nuts over the Sharps Rifles series. It has complete rack & stack numbers for the 95th rifle regiment. I got it about 4 years ago. I do not have any idea of who owned the gun or who made the gun. I was told it was made by somebody near Winston Salem NC.
The original owner was a reenactor. On my third
live round the touch hole began to vent behind the lock plate. It took me several months to get all of the bugs out of this gun. I am happy with it now. After fileing out a new higher front sight, the fixed sight is dead on at 100 yards and the flip up sight is dead on at 200 yards. It is very hard to miss a mid sized target at 200 yards with this the worlds first assualt rifle!
I use close to the full sized British load of 85 grains of 3F ( 80 grains )a .595 ball in 20 thousands patching. It shoots the British forced ball very well but on trail walks I load it with
loose ball & patch.
The Baker rifle was issued two diferent ball sizes. They used the .595 ball sewn up in the patch material and dipped in tallow ( the forced ball ) This was forced into the muzzle by a small hard wood mallet. The rifle has a steel ramrod.
the other ball was the British carbine ball of .615. This was loaded in a paper cartridge just like the musket cartridges. This was for rapid fire up close combat. The forced ball was for long range accuracy. While the British were driving the French from Portugal and Spain ( Over the Hills and Far Away ) They had to lay seige to several large stone forts that the French were holed up in. The standard procedure was for the cannons to all aim for one section of the wall. Once a big enough hole was blasted in the wall, the British Forlorn Hope would charge this hole.
Of course the French would have many nasty surprises for these brave Englishmen. One thing any force would do in this situation was to place many cannons loaded with grape shot near the breach to thin out the attacking Englishmen.
There are reports of sharpshooters from the 95th Rifles killing so many French cannoniers that the
French would pull the cannon back and board up the cannons firing port. The range for this was around 300 yards.
The Baker rifle's fixed sight was 200 yards and the flip sight was 300 yards.
Later in the rifles use Ezekiel Baker advised the loading mallets not be used because it deformed the nose of the ball. Records show that the loading mallet was used many years after this.
My new front sight dropped my impact to 100 and 200 yards. I do not mind this as I do not get the call to close up French cannon ports at 300 yards! It is a great fun historical rifle gun!

 

[tsmgguy]

Any truth to Cornwell's assertion that leather was used to patch bullets?

The seller of this rifle thoughtfully forgot to include a flint so I can't check sparking. I have ordered up a few Tom Fuller flints in size 1" x1 1/8" as this seemed to be the only way to get the length that I need.

And, last, where can I find information on knapping your own flints, and knapping a flint still held in place on the rifle?

Thanks!

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

The ultimate guide to British flintlock rifles is
British Military Flintlock Rifles 1740-1840 by De Witt Bailey. There are records of the British buying yards of Fustian material as the patching for their forced ball.
As my rifle is old and I do not know if the lock is correct for the rifle, I cannot comment on the flint size for your rifle.

I can help on how to hold the flint in jaws of the cock. When you get your flints on hand, cut a piece of very thin soft leather into a rectangle as wide as the flint. You cut this strip so that it will cover most of the flat part of the flint to the back dull side of the flint. Wrap this piece of leather to the same place on the underside of the flint. If you hold the flint sideways it will look like a flint taco. The sharp side out and the dull back in the center of the leather. Then you put this taco on the jaws of the cock. I then adjust the flint placement in the jaws until it will impact the hammer between 1/2 to 2/3rds up from the bottom of the hammer. You want the flint to scrape a long path across the face of the hammer. Some people will punch a
hole dead center of this leather so that the flint
will be able to slide deeper in the jaws.
Now when you tighten your flint in the jaws, it will ether be with the bevel up or the bevel down.
Try it both ways and see which one works the best for you.
A very thin sheet of lead ( very thin ) can be used also. The lead will loosen up faster than the leather so I prefer leather.

As your rifle is left handed, which side of the barrel is your bayonet bar on? ( if you are aiming the rifle)

 

[robinghewitt]

Any truth to Cornwell's assertion that leather was used to patch bullets?

Certainly is, try to find a copy of Baker's Remarks on the Rifle by Ezekiel Baker.

Baker's rifling was kinda deep by modern standards, takes a lot to fill it :thumbsup:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Any truth to Cornwell's assertion that leather was used to patch bullets?

The seller of this rifle thoughtfully forgot to include a flint so I can't check sparking. I have ordered up a few Tom Fuller flints in size 1" x1 1/8" as this seemed to be the only way to get the length that I need.

And, last, where can I find information on knapping your own flints, and knapping a flint still held in place on the rifle?

Thanks!

The British issued balls already fitted with a sewn-on pig skin patch. Several originals are in collections and one is shown in the "Rifleman" book from Brassy. A copy is also shown that was made by a British re-enactor. They don't know what the original lube was but noted it was something mice were attracted to!

 

[tsmgguy]

The bayonet bar on the new left handed Baker is on the right, as you hold the rifle for sighting. I've ordered a sword bayonet from TRS.

Are any of you shooting Pinnacle 2ff? What do you use for priming powder if Pinnacle only comes in 3 & 2ff?

It's a nice looking rifle indeed, with an English walnut stock and browned barrel. I hope to have it out to the range this week, but there are many small items needed for firing yet to be acquired!

Thanks for the answers. . .

 

[Russianblood]

Are any of you shooting Pinnacle 2ff? What do you use for priming powder if Pinnacle only comes in 3 & 2ff?

Pinnacle is a substitute black powder and will be very unreliable in a flintlock unless you load some real black powder first. It definitely won't work well for prime no matter what F grade it is.

Find yourself some real black powder and you'll save yourself from massive frustration.

 

[mmahlock]

I also have one of Jess's Baker Rifles. Congrats :thumbsup: The load you defined is about the same as what I use. I use a bit less powder but the ball and patch are the same. The Tom Fuller 7/8 flint is about the best fit I've found for a flint. You can get them from a number of people but I get mine from the Track of the Wolf.

Have fun shooting it. The first time you touch it off in a place where you've never fired before the curious looks before you shoot will turn to a flood of questions.