New TVM Virginia Rifle Received and a Question

[Flash Pan Dan]

Howdy all,

Well after a 11 month wait (the delay was due to me changing the order a few times) I got my TVM Virginia rifle. Brass mounted, wooden patch box, Chambers Colonial Virginia Lock, 38 inch Swamped Rice barrel in 54 caliber, carvings were; beavertails, feather behind tang, lines on belly and ramrod channel, lines in cheekpiece, and thumbprint in wood box, and aged finish. And I must make note of the fact that this rifle doesn’t have a speck of wood more on it than it needs, in other words, very thin wood. The Super Premium maple wood is exquisite. I had Matt install a Chambers White Lighting touch hole liner and he did such a superb job you can not see that it even has a liner installed.

Took her out to the range and she points better than she looks and she looks fantastic. I had the stock cut to my pull length with a little cast-off in the butt and I can bring the rifle up with my eyes closed, then open my eyes and be looking right down the sights.

Things I learned from the first shot; the L. C. Rice made Chambers lock is the best sparking lock I have ever seen, not that I have seen that many, but this thing throws an unbelievable amount of sparks right into the pan. I have shot 46 shots so far with the first flint and it still has a lot of shots left in it. The barrel is so smooth that ramming a patched ball down it when it is dirty is like ramming a ball in other barrels I have shot when they were freshly clean. If you have yet to deduce the fact that I am quite enthralled with this rifle, I am.

Now to the question; I was shooting .535 ball with .015 and .022 patches with and without a felt wad under the ball and have not quite gotten the groups I was expecting. I have used 2F and 3F Schuetzen powder from 60 to 75 grains with Hoppe’s and Wonderlube on the patches. The .015 patches showed some blow by, but other than that the other combos using felt wool wads and the .022 patches looked good. My best group at 25 yards is about an inch. I don’t know where to go next. If any of you find folks that have shot Rice barrels can relate some ball, patch, lubes combos I might try I would be most appreciative. I also want to thank all those on this forum who advised me on the selection of the components for this rifle.

Dan

 

[roundball]

One definition of disappointment is "when expectations are not met".
What was your expectation for a group size?

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Well, at 25 yards less than inch. Closer to a half an inch if not less.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The group sizes at those short ranges will reduce as you get used to shooting the gun and load.

Take the gun back and shoot groups at 50 yds. I think you will see they are easily 2" or less. Once you find your best load at 50 yds., THEN , go back and shoot that load at your 25 yd. target and see how small the group is. A 1" group at 25 yds. is NOTHING to SNEEZE AT with any new gun, rifle or smoothbore.

Going from shooting a smaller caliber gun to a larger caliber gun, a shooter might find it more difficult to hold his aiming point at 25 yds. with the bigger holes in the paper, until he gets used to the new sights, weight, balance, and trigger on the new gun. It happened to me when I moved up from a .45 to a .50 cal. rifle. It didn't take long, however, to get used to the new gun, and it proved even more accurate for me than my .45.

I too was cautioned by some more experienced shooters to not expect my first groups to be the best groups the new gun will shoot, for any number of reasons.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Thanks Paul, as always sage advice. To be clear I am not so much disappointed as just a bit pensive. My thinking was a .535 ball and .022 thick patch was going to be tight seal and accurate. But in that slick barrel it sure didn’t feel tight ramming the ball down. I know things will get better and the great thing about it is that it gets better the more I shoot it.

I’ll take the best load I have so far and just shoot it for awhile before I go back to testing different powder, patch, ball, and lube combinations.

Dan

 

[Dausener]

Congrats on the rifle Flash. It sounds like you and I have the same rifle except mine has a 42" barrle. I use 80 grs. of 2F w/ a .525 ball and a .015 patch. It will chew out the bull of a target at 50 yrds. I could probably get tighter groups but I haven't tried many other combos yet. I may try 3F powder sometime too. Now, all that being said...WE NEED PICTURES!!! hotoSmile:

 

[LRB]

My .54 Rice likes 80gr of FFg., .016 ticking patch, .530 ball. I get 1 1/2" groups at 50 yrds, but I don't see as well as I used to. Mine also loads easy. I can seat the ball in a clean barrel with one hand.

 

[BrownBear]

I can't make reco's on load changes because I don't have any Rice barrels (drat). But your description of the seating ease makes me wonder about another potential contributor to your grouping question: Seating pressure, or said another way, how firmly you seat the ball on the powder. Some prefer more and some prefer less, but in my experience, being consistent from shot to shot influences group size a lot.

 

[mazo kid]

Dan, here is a thread I had posted earlier about my first outing with my Rice round groove barrel. While mine is a .58, I only shot 80 gr. fffg Goex in it. My group at 50 yards benched is 1-1/2" X 1-3/4". As you can see from reading that thread, others have said that these Rice barrels seem to like a little heavier charge. Next time out I will try 85 and 90 grains. Unfortunately, I haven't had it out since. Need to change that! http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/256085/

 

[Stubert]

If your ball is .535, and you are shooting an inch at 25 yds, your holes are all touching. Whats wrong with that?

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Thank you all for your input. I went out today and shot the rifle again. I took Paul’s advice and shot the rifle getting used to the different feel and function of this particular rifle. I put another 40 shots through it and then started an new series of tests.

Well, you folks who recommend heavier loads are right. The groups started to tighten up when I started going above 70 grains of 3F. I also tried some different lubes like Ballistol, Wonderlube, and a couple of home brews. I found a jar of Precision Lube 2000, I don’t know when or why I bought it but I tried it and it made a difference. With 75 grains of Schuetzen 3F, a .020 patch with Precision Lube 2000 and a .535 ball I started to get one hole groups at 25 yards. This is from a rest. I didn’t have access to the 50 yard range today but I will try tomorrow.

I will take some pictures of the rifle and post them. Though I have to say that the brass is not as shiny now as it was when I got it a few days ago. I put a total of 83 rounds through it today. So far I got to say this is one of the better investments I have made in the shooting sports in last 20 years. The rifle is so easy to load, shoot, and clean. Just six wet patches and the barrel is clean. I have never had that experience before. Thank you all again.

Oh Brown Bear, thanks for the reminder on the consistent seating pressure. I was more conscience of the loading procedure. I might have been I little excited first time out with this rifle.

Dan

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Well, at 25 yards less than inch. Closer to a half an inch if not less.

Dan,
I have a Rice .54 round rifling like yours except it is 44 inches long. I like 70 gr 3fg Swiss, .526 round ball and spit patch pretty wet. The smaller ball and thick patch seem to work well. The 1/2" group below was shot with this load off a bench.

The secret for me isn't the load, it's the sight picture. I have trouble with primitive sights and a cataract. This group was shot with shaders over each sight and piece of black tape with small hole used on my glasses. I think the gun would do better if I'd install non traditional sights - but that won't happen. Long story short, the gun isn't the weak link - I am.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Tony Logan]

I believe you have a shooter

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've got an L.C. Rice .54 with radius groves/round rifling and he does make a nice barrel.

I find sooting up the sights (German silver front, shallow notch rear) helps a bit. Though where and when I hunt the silver blade does show up well.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

I have a Rice C wt. 38 in. .54 and use 90grs. 3F Goex .530 Hornady, drill cloth patch cut at the muzzle using wonder lube. As you said they are smooth!

 

[Stumpkiller]

My .54 Rice likes 80gr of FFg., .016 ticking patch, .530 ball. I get 1 1/2" groups at 50 yrds, but I don't see as well as I used to. Mine also loads easy. I can seat the ball in a clean barrel with one hand.

Similar - I use 85 gr FFFg, 0.530" ball and 0.017/.018" patching and either my homemade Moose Juice or Moose Snot.

 

[rr11]

My TVM Virginia rifle has a Longhammock barrel, Matt does make a fine rifle. I get my best groups with Tracks Mink oil lube. After a couple hundred rounds she tigthened the groupes up, do not knough if it was the rifle or me . Good luck you will love the rifle.

 

[redwing]

The Rice radius cut barrels are great. They do well with a tight weave patch. My .54 likes a Lee cast pure lead ball with a Walmart 100% cotton Duct patch .024 Hoppes BP+. I also shoot Wano Powder.