New UPS Regs

[Newaygo77]

A month or so back, UPS seems to have tightened up their policy on shipping firearms and firearms parts. You can go to their company website to see the new policy, but in a nutshell, they seem to now be requiring an FFL to both ship and receive a firearm (instead of their old policy of just requiring the person receiving the gun to have an FFL). They also seem to be tightening their policy in regard to shipping firearms parts and “firearms related “ items, although this part is unclear to me.

in the past, the company has not viewed muzzleloaders as standard firearms and has not required an FFL. Is this still the case under their new regulations? What have folks’ recent experiences been shipping muzzleloaders with UPS?

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I have a couple of items listed and have restricted to sale to the region in which I live. I believe that if USPS scans your parcel (xray) and determines its a Gun regardless of it being classified as an Antique it will be confiscated with no further recourse by oneself. Not only are you out of your Item but the Money would have to be returned to the buyer. Then there is the other horror stories of the other carriers...Items being damaged with a lengthy process to get just compensation. Then there is the fact that if a particular State considers the Item a firearm its a no go from the beginning. Seems like UPS has in fact jumped on the bandwagon in restricting free trade in regards to Blackpowder Items. I see more restrictions in the future...just because they can.

 

[Rifleman1776]

if USPS scans your parcel (xray

You said "if". Do you know for a fact whether or not USPS x-rays packages? I have never heard this before. I have sent and received a number of ml long guns via USPS and never a problem. On sending I do check the box that says I am not sending anything illegal.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I have a couple of items listed and have restricted to sale to the region in which I live. I believe that if USPS scans your parcel (xray) and determines its a Gun regardless of it being classified as an Antique it will be confiscated with no further recourse by oneself. Not only are you out of your Item but the Money would have to be returned to the buyer. Then there is the other horror stories of the other carriers...Items being damaged with a lengthy process to get just compensation. Then there is the fact that if a particular State considers the Item a firearm its a no go from the beginning. Seems like UPS has in fact jumped on the bandwagon in restricting free trade in regards to Blackpowder Items. I see more restrictions in the future...just because they can.

Not 100% Positive but in todays World with Home Security I imagine they might. The Pistol with the circle slash on the wall pretty much cements their position on it.

 

[sheriff john]

Not much detail in media coverage, perhaps someone has a link to the full details. Also, the same rules are to apply with FedX according to the article I read (but cannot find back). This is a game-changer with probably no recourse. Also, if I recall, the date of the change was September 5th ?

 

[BJamesBeck]

I just sold a flintlock pistol to another member on this forum earlier this month, shipped it via USPS (Illinois to Montana), and he received it without issue.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Just a personal thought on the matter here. X-ray can damage some items and materials. I doubt U.S. Mule would take the chance.

 

[Newaygo77]

Again, to be clear, my question was about UPS, not the US Post Office.

 

[springfield art]

A month or so back, UPS seems to have tightened up their policy on shipping firearms and firearms parts. You can go to their company website to see the new policy, but in a nutshell, they seem to now be requiring an FFL to both ship and receive a firearm (instead of their old policy of just requiring the person receiving the gun to have an FFL). They also seem to be tightening their policy in regard to shipping firearms parts and “firearms related “ items, although this part is unclear to me.

in the past, the company has not viewed muzzleloaders as standard firearms and has not required an FFL. Is this still the case under their new regulations? What have folks’ recent experiences been shipping muzzleloaders with UPS?

They're probably scared of people sending hi-cap magazines in the mails to prohibited States

 

[sheriff john]

It's the "ghost gun" hysteria, coupled with "we hate guns", in my opinion. Just another hassle that won't save even one life. I'm confused as to whether the "sending" FFL has to register the firearm into his book and same thing coming back. Whatever the case, it'll be a mess with more costs to us IF we can find a local FFL to mess with it.

 

[akroguy]

Because a plank of Maple will eventually be an "unfinished lower receiver".

Good grief.

 

[BigAl52]

You can thank Diane Feinstein and some of her liberal constituents who sent threatening letters to these shippers telling them they were contributing to firearm theft and illegal activity. There packages with firearms were being easily stolen so they say.

 

[BJamesBeck]

Just did a little digging into this out of curiosity, and it appears to me that none of this new UPS policy will apply to muzzleloaders. (don't quote me on this, I am not here to give legal advice)

This is due to UPS using 18 USC Ch. 44: FIREARMS to define a "Firearm". 18 USC Ch. 44: FIREARMS states:

"(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

It looks to me like their new policy is merely to align with the new laws regarding partially finished receivers having to have a serial number. Though it may be a slippery slope, it doesn't look to me like these new policies will effect shipping muzzleloaders.

That being said, I have had a UPS store refuse to ship a muzzleloader due to store policy (apparently UPS stores are individual franchises and can set their own policy regarding what they will ship). The clerk told me they "will not ship firearms" and was not amused by my "Well ACTUALLY, according to the U.S. government, this Model 1816 musket is not a firearm."

I just took it to a UPS Customer Center who shipped it no questions asked. This was probably mid-2021 for reference.

 

[springfield art]

Just did a little digging into this out of curiosity, and it appears to me that none of this new UPS policy will apply to muzzleloaders. (don't quote me on this, I am not here to give legal advice)

This is due to UPS using 18 USC Ch. 44: FIREARMS to define a "Firearm". 18 USC Ch. 44: FIREARMS states:

"(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

It looks to me like their new policy is merely to align with the new laws regarding partially finished receivers having to have a serial number. Though it may be a slippery slope, it doesn't look to me like these new policies will effect shipping muzzleloaders.

That being said, I have had a UPS store refuse to ship a muzzleloader due to store policy (apparently UPS stores are individual franchises and can set their own policy regarding what they will ship). The clerk told me they "will not ship firearms" and was not amused by my "Well ACTUALLY, according to the U.S. government, this Model 1816 musket is not a firearm."

I just took it to a UPS Customer Center who shipped it no questions asked. This was probably mid-2021 for reference.

According to the US Gov't. muzzleloaders aren't legally 'firearms' but shippers are so fearful they become unreasonable.

 

[John Spartan]

I talked to a UPS employee who mentioned this (upcoming?) change to me and said it was courtesy of the new “woke” CEO.
Anyway he had received correspondence on the policy and, like the OP, said it was very confusing about what exactly they were doing. My impression was firearms could be received by an FFL (from a company only?) but they would not ship for individuals or FFL’s. Like I said he didn’t get it so don’t take that as gospel and maybe he confused me. Dunno.

 

[Newaygo77]

Tha

Just did a little digging into this out of curiosity, and it appears to me that none of this new UPS policy will apply to muzzleloaders. (don't quote me on this, I am not here to give legal advice)

This is due to UPS using 18 USC Ch. 44: FIREARMS to define a "Firearm". 18 USC Ch. 44: FIREARMS states:

"(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

It looks to me like their new policy is merely to align with the new laws regarding partially finished receivers having to have a serial number. Though it may be a slippery slope, it doesn't look to me like these new policies will effect shipping muzzleloaders.

That being said, I have had a UPS store refuse to ship a muzzleloader due to store policy (apparently UPS stores are individual franchises and can set their own policy regarding what they will ship). The clerk told me they "will not ship firearms" and was not amused by my "Well ACTUALLY, according to the U.S. government, this Model 1816 musket is not a firearm."

I just took it to a UPS Customer Center who shipped it no questions asked. This was probably mid-2021 for reference.

n,

Just did a little digging into this out of curiosity, and it appears to me that none of this new UPS policy will apply to muzzleloaders. (don't quote me on this, I am not here to give legal advice)

This is due to UPS using 18 USC Ch. 44: FIREARMS to define a "Firearm". 18 USC Ch. 44: FIREARMS states:

"(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

It looks to me like their new policy is merely to align with the new laws regarding partially finished receivers having to have a serial number. Though it may be a slippery slope, it doesn't look to me like these new policies will effect shipping muzzleloaders.

That being said, I have had a UPS store refuse to ship a muzzleloader due to store policy (apparently UPS stores are individual franchises and can set their own policy regarding what they will ship). The clerk told me they "will not ship firearms" and was not amused by my "Well ACTUALLY, according to the U.S. government, this Model 1816 musket is not a firearm."

I just took it to a UPS Customer Center who shipped it no questions asked. This was probably mid-2021 for referenc

Just did a little digging into this out of curiosity, and it appears to me that none of this new UPS policy will apply to muzzleloaders. (don't quote me on this, I am not here to give legal advice)

This is due to UPS using 18 USC Ch. 44: FIREARMS to define a "Firearm". 18 USC Ch. 44: FIREARMS states:

"(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

It looks to me like their new policy is merely to align with the new laws regarding partially finished receivers having to have a serial number. Though it may be a slippery slope, it doesn't look to me like these new policies will effect shipping muzzleloaders.

That being said, I have had a UPS store refuse to ship a muzzleloader due to store policy (apparently UPS stores are individual franchises and can set their own policy regarding what they will ship). The clerk told me they "will not ship firearms" and was not amused by my "Well ACTUALLY, according to the U.S. government, this Model 1816 musket is not a firearm."

I just took it to a UPS Customer Center who shipped it no questions asked. This was probably mid-2021 for reference.

Thanks, this is the interpretation of the policy that I was hoping for. I just hope that UPS agrees.

 

[Rifleman1776]

shippers are so fearful they become unreasonable.

Yep. Problem in a nutshell.

 

[brushblind]

These shippers will most likely reverse course with a regime change so my advice is do your research and vote accordingly or we lose our rights and the US Constitution by a thousand cuts like what's happening now!

 

[azmntman]

I do not ship firearms. I ship replica props.

 

[sheriff john]

Don't believe it paranoid to suspicion that ammo (and components) may be next. News feeds carry "shootings" nationwide today that wouldn't make page three (obituaries) a few years ago. Gun control takes focus away from failures in other areas.

Question comes to mind...How will carriers determine whether or not the sender and/or receiver of a package is, indeed, a current FFL holder?