Newbie building a shooting bag

[Zonie]

For those who aren't exactly sure what vinegaroon is, if they Google it they will find it is a ugly spider-like thing with giant jaws.

That ain't what you want, unless your trying to get rid of the crickets around your house. :grin:

Here is a link to making and using vinegaroon some of you will find useful.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Vinegaroon-Black-Leather-Dye/

 

[Black Hand]

Ive been searching without much luck.
And I tried the frequently asked questions here.

I have some vegetable tan sides to build a shooting bag. How do I get that nice oiled look?

Have you considered using a lighter-weight leather? Easier to work and makes a lighter bag...

 

[Chris C]

One leather side I have is pretty light. All was given to me in a couple trades.
Im just getting back into making gear and Rendevouz
Some of my clothes would likely fit my kids now and my breechclouts seem like that use to cover more!

I appreciate all the help folks!

 

[Artificer]

Good article Zonie,

It does mention "You need plain steel wool - not stainless steel, and not the kind that's coated with cleaning products."

What is does not mention is that plain steel wool is coated in a preservative oil that can/will screw up the vinegaroon. I remember other forum members saying one needs to "wash" the plain steel wool in some Acetone to get rid of the preservative oil, before using it in the vinegaroon mix.

I have to mention I have not yet made some of the mixture, but I keep information on doing it, as I'm going to make up some in the future.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Tall Hat,

Most folks recommend for a Shot Pouch (18th century terminology), Hunting Bag, Shooting Pouch, Possibles Pouch (or whatever you want to call it) that you use Veg Tanned 3 to 3 1/2 oz./ounce leather.

The following link shows a Weight/Thickness Chart that works with plain Veg Tanned Leather. However, Veg Tanned leather is not an exact thickness throughout the hide or piece of leather and that's why it is normally described as between one size and an additional half ounce, as in the 3 - 3 1/2 oz. size mentioned above. https://www.tandyleather.com/en/leather-buying-guide.html

I have made shot pouches out of the next size up Veg Tan leather, though I hand work it a lot so it is pretty flexible. Still, that thickness is not as popular with some folks.

After looking at the Shot Pouches you linked, I have another recommendation for leather that originally came from Brown Bear. Tandy calls the leather "Stoned Oil Sides" and the "Dark Brown" color is close to what you linked.

When I went to my local Tandy Leather Store to look at these sides, I was surprised to find the listed Weight/Thickness: 4 to 4.5 oz. to be thinner in thickness than what the above chart lists for Veg Tanned Leather. The reason the leather is thinner is because it already has been dyed, and has Oils and Waxes worked into the leather. Since the Oils/Waxes add weight, this leather is very close to identical to the 3 to 3 1/2 oz. thickness many people like in Veg Tanned Leather.

This leather does not need dyeing and with the Oils/Waxes in it, it won't take further coats of dye. So you must pick out the color you like of the three colors listed. The leather does not feel "Oily" even though it has the Oils/Waxes in it. Oh, this leather will need additional Oiling as time goes by, just like other leathers. I was very impressed with this leather.

BTW, Tandy discounts the price of this leather every 2 to 3 months, so you can get it a bit cheaper then.
https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/stoned-oil-sides

Brown Bear recommends the Oil Tanned leather as it stands up better in the very wet conditions he lives in. He also recommended the Tandy "Kodiak" Oil tanned sides and I examined those closely in my local Tandy Store as well. Though I liked the weight and "temper" (flexibility) of this leather, it has an embossed pattern on the smooth side that would not be correct for an historic reproduction of 18th/19th century Shot Pouches and other items. When I saw that embossed pattern on the smooth side of the leather, I ruled it out for that reason.

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

I've found it "touchy" about how well you rinse/neutralize it after application. If you're not careful you'll eventually get a white "frost" coming up to the surface with some leathers. Not a big deal, but worth remembering.

 

[Artificer]

I've found it "touchy" about how well you rinse/neutralize it after application. If you're not careful you'll eventually get a white "frost" coming up to the surface with some leathers. Not a big deal, but worth remembering.

You are talking about Vinegaroon, right?

The reason I ask is because I "just got in ahead of you" with a post about Tandy Stoned Oil Sides, that you originally recommended.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Tall Hat,

As an addendum to my last post on Page 1 of this thread, I probably should have mentioned if you don't care about recreating an historic reproduction of an 18th/19th century Shot Pouch/Hunting Bag, then the Kodiak Oil Tanned Sides (that Brown Bear also recommended) would make a very good choice of leather.

I'm not sure whether or not you are doing living history or reenacting, but if you are doing them or are interested in getting into them, I would stay away from the Kodiak Oil Tanned Sides ONLY because of the embossed pattern on the smooth side that is not historically correct. That way, you would not have to make another Shot Pouch that is correct.

However, this does not in any way mean the Kodiak sides are not very good leather. I really liked them, but just couldn't get around the fact they have an embossed pattern on the smooth side.

Gus

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Gus, that Kodiak oil tanned is actually a chromium tanned product, yes?

 

[Artificer]

Capt. Jas.

Glad you are chiming in here.

I don't know whether both the Stoned Oil Sides and the Kodiak sides are Chromium Tanned or not, because I did not ask when I looked at them in the store in Richmond. However, since they are not listed as "Veg Tanned" or something similar, they probably are chromium tanned? And yes, that alone would make the leather not historically correct for 18th/19th century "forum period" usage.

I just checked and the store is not open yet, but will call them when they open and report back.

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

Gus, that Kodiak oil tanned is actually a chromium tanned product, yes?

I wonder....

There are a lot of "variations" floating around the market. Got some "oil tanned" from The Leather Guy a couple of years back, and the temper was so soft if was almost unusable for my needs, almost like a chamois with a thin hard side. Ended up using it for some draw string bags, if that tells you how soft it was. The tandy stuff appears to have a hard temper when you first get it, but lots of bending and use softens it to a degree, but still harder than The Leather Guy stuff right out of the box. It nonetheless gets softer than chrome tanned with the same bending and flexing, so I'm still scratching my head. In truth it's lots like the veg tanned leather I dosed with TOW mink tallow.

If the folks at your local Tandy store don't know, I'm sure they can make a call and find out for you.

 

[Artificer]

Gus, that Kodiak oil tanned is actually a chromium tanned product, yes?

James,

OK, I called and got an answer, though it is not absolutely definite.

The Store Owner informed me that Tandy lists chromium tanned leather in different ways than they list the Oil Tanned leather. He doesn't believe the Oil Tanned leathers are Chromium Tanned, but can't be sure without contacting the actual tannery that tans them. He also informed me most of tanneries that Tandy buys from, are from outside the U.S.A. and normally can't or won't talk about their tanning processes.

I don't pretend to be an expert on leather, but these products don't appear to me to be Chromium tanned and/or like any other Chromium tanned leather that I know of that Tandy sells.

Sorry, that's the best answer I could get.

Gus

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Gus, If I were a betting man I would have to go with it being chrome tanned. "Oil tanned" is quite misleading anyway as you know. Therr are some tanneries doing combo tanning but I'm still for the chromium salts on this lot : )

 

[Artificer]

Hi James,

Yes and as you now, during the 18th century "Stuffed/Stuff'd" Leather meant the Leather had oils and waxes worked into it after the vat bark/veg tanning was done, so it was an additional step near or at the end of the tanning/finishing process. (Never having done it, I'm going off information from "The Leatherworker in Eighteenth-Century Williamsburg" by Harold B. Gill, Raymond R. Townsend, Thomas K. Ford.)

It could well be chromium tanned leather, but if it is tanned in the same overseas tanneries where Tandy gets their Veg Tanned Leather, then it may also be Veg Tanned and then "Stuffed" with oil and waxes. Sounds like something to research further, if possible.

Gus

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Ok here's the scoop on this Kodiak stuff from someone connected to acquisition from the foreign tannery. ........ It begins leather life in a VEGETABLE tannage!! Oiled for pull-up in the second process.
Enjoy.

 

[Artificer]

Capt. Jas.

That's WONDERFUL information, THANK YOU!!

OK, I will still stay away from the Kodiak Sides for HC leather work because it has the embossed surface, BUT that means the Stoned Oil Sides, that are extremely close to Tandy's 3 to 3 1/2 oz Veg Tanned leather, will be great for HC projects.

Shucks, now I have no excuse not to buy one or two Stoned Oil Sides. My Sporran is chewing me out already..... :haha:

Gus