Newbie...Can I build a beauty or have one built ??

[ADKhunter]

The flintlock bug has bitten me.
I realy want a fine curlymaple .50 cal to take into the Adirondacks this fall.
I was looking at Track of the Wolf "kits" in either Early Lancaster or John Armstrong Maryland.
Anyone have any experiance with these kits?
Good? Bad?
Can I build a family heirloom?
I dont need super fancy carvings and inlays but I want a damn nice rifle.
I dont mind paying for workmanship but if I decide to have a custom or semi custom rifle built for me how much is one going to set me back?
No wall hangers in my safe
But dont have 3500 to spend on a rifle
build or buy......if so from who
thanks

 

[Stumpkiller]

Can I build a family heirloom?

Depends how much talent you have, how patient you are, how much you invest in the proper tools, how good an eye you have for detail and proportion.

A $600 group of parts can be turned into a $400 rifle by a lot of folks, or a $3,500 rifle by a few folks.

I have seen some first time rifles that are astounding. I've also know several golfers who claim to have made holes-in-one; though never with the first swing of their life.

If you have made some of your own furniture or gutted a room/house and rebuilt it into something nice, you probably have what it takes. If you bend every third nail you hammer, and can't change your own oil without buggering the plug threads you might better pay someone who has built a few. Someone once told me when I was considering building one from parts that "your first six rifles are usually manure". I figured it wasn't worth the cost of education for one rifle.

Check out www.earlyrusticarmc.com for some nice offerings. Like anything else, it pays to contact several makers and ask lots of questions.

You can get a nice, simple rifle for $800 to $1,000 +/-, and adding such things as a swamped barrel, patchbox and some basic carving/engraving take it on up rapidly. $2,000 to $2,500 will get you a rifle that is a close copy of an original Pennsylvania with "typical" ornamentation.

Back to the heirloom: saying "Grandpa built this" will win over "Grandpa bought this" every time, hands down. Part of what makes it a heirloom is that you will have put your time, sweat and love into it.

 

[mikee51848]

Being about 80% finished on my first effort, let me say this. When it is done, it will be obviously "flawed" when compared to pictures of experienced gun-makers products. Simply put, I've made mistakes. No book or video, I think, properly prepares you 100% for the task. It is true, I believe, for most gun builders to take several efforts to make a true wall-hanger. But I will be just as proud of my first as my last.
Good luck to you, and welcome to the board. eace:

 

[reddogge]

If you have a little skill working with your hands and go real slow and ask a lot of questions, read a lot of books you can do this. And I guarantee it will have flaws but you will think it's beautiful because you created it with your own two hands.

 

[Donny]

Real simple: if you want a well made gun, correct in all areas, buy it. If you want a well made gun, and to be a gun builder, you have to start sometime, now is the time.

 

[roundball]

Someone once told me when I was considering building one from parts that "your first six rifles are usually manure". I figured it wasn't worth the cost of education for one rifle.

You must be reading my mind...
I know myself well enough to know not to try...zero patience for that sort of thing...I'll refinish an existing stock to make it prettier...but will have to pass on trying to make one.
eace:

 

[jdixon]

Stumpkiller - your post hits the mark. I am printing off a copy to hang in the shop as inspiration. I will however have to remove the reference to your knowing golfers !?!?! - Ugh!!!

 

[Stumpkiller]

remove the reference to your knowing golfers.

I tried it a couple times. But after sighting down my borrowed clubs, with the head tucked up to my shoulder, and saying "Bang!" as I pointed it at distant woodchucks, I was never asked to play much thereafter.

As Mark Twain said. "Golf is a good walk spoiled".

My Father-in-law didn't take it up until he was 80. I got time yet.

 

[rich pierce]

I'd look at some of the outfits that make finished guns of the style that interests you as a first step. Then you might visit some websites that sell guns on consignment, to get an idea of pricing of custom guns with different features and degrees of virtuosity. If you are looking for a Lancaster-styled rifle that is fully appointed (swamped barrel, top of the line parts, patchbox, some carving) with nice curly maple, you're looking at a minimum of $1500 (generally, there may be exceptions)and could pay as much as $10,000 if you wanted something that approaches a work of art by a contemporary master. Getting one ready by the fall hunting seasonn in the Adirondacks would be a challenge for most builders who have work already in the hopper. In general, one can find a Lancaster rifle ready made somewhere. Haines-styled guns are prevalent as floppy ears on a hound dog lately. If you could pay $2500 you'd have a good choice of fine rifles.
On the other hand, unless you really know what you want and study the work of current gunsmiths, you may regret spending that much on your first "custom" rifle. In general, once handled and shot, like a new car driven for even a month, the value declines significatly from new. Just my thoughts.

 

[Rat]

Go with a "in the white" rifle. You can still say gandpa made it.

The "kits" from TOTW are not kits really, more precisely they are parts that an experienced builder can put together nicely. Indeed a novice can wind up with a $400 rifle from $600 worth of parts. This is true. Oh so true.

I got a bad stock from TOTW with my Jaeger "kit". An experienced builder would have sent it right back, and got a good one. I didn't even know it was bad, and worked (butchered?) on it, which of course you can't exchange it when you do that. That was a nice $$$ mistake. Lucky for me a kind gent in Alabama pulled my butt out of the fire for me after I realized I had fallen in way over my head, and I did wind up with a beutiful rifle.

In the[url] white...in[/url] the white.

On the other hand, you CAN afford a custom rifle, one way or the other. They are probably the best bargain on earth. You can save the money. Some makers take payments. And, you can get a beutiful plain, but custom rifle for way under $3500, more like $1500 or even slightly less.

I doubt that you can have any rifle that has to be built in time to take hunting this fall. And, as a novice, if you try to hurry with a TOTW "kit", I can promise you that you'll probably wind up with something you hate, and probably don't want to be seen with...and certainly don't want to pass down after you pass on.

I have a friend that did that, insisted on finishing a $700 "kit" gun after realizing he was in over his head. He told me that after he spent a year in embarassment, despising the rifle, he GAVE IT AWAY.

'nuff said!

Rat

 

[Birddog6]

You might give Tip Curtis Frontier Shop a call on the "In the White" rifles. Last time I was there Tip had at least 50 of them built up in the rack in the shop & was putting together about 12 more. These are not fancy carved rifles but some really nice rifles & a very wide selection. Seems like the prices ranged from $895. to $1495. (don't remember all of them) and some had some superb wood on them. His tele# 615-654-4445 The would get you some experience of what is there to do and also some sanding & finishing experience & get you one to hunt with this fall.

He also sells all kinds of parts for rifles (builders kits)& probably has the best parts inventory I have seen & seldom is out of anything. I have bought parts there to build over a dozen rifles & have never had a problem with the parts or dealing with him, as he is quite accomodating.

However, the first thing ya got to figure out is what ya want... cause that is the first thing anyone will ask ya & Tip will have all different calibers, styles, etc.. He is at Friendship every year & has a building there with his goods in it.

If you can to Friendship in June, it is well worth the trip just to experience everything there one time in your life. Hundreds of ML rifles there, lots of selections & you will see things there you have never seen anyplace else. It is a smorgasborg of parts..........

:thumbsup:

 

[big bore 75]

here's another solution, start with a lyman flintlock kit, go to[url] northernrifleman.com[/url] and click on rifle kits, for 325.00 they have the lyman and they make a beutifull rifle after you build a few kit guns then you can take the next plunge to semi costum and full costum rifles, or as a few others try a in the white from earlyrustic arms built a few of them myself and they turn out awsome. good luck and have fun and go sllllooowww.

 

You have gotten some good advice, but let me add my two bits: many years ago I wanted a PA style longrifle real bad but the only true ones on the market were custom jobs beyond my meager funds at the time. I built my own and for a first rifle it turned out pretty good (see photos in the Photo section below)BUT, I had guidance from an experienced builder. I don't think you can learn to make a rifle from books alone--and there are several good ones out there--unless you are real handy in both metal work and woodworking. AND you need the proper tools and a proper shop. AND you need to take your time and be very thoughtful about each step and very careful in each operation. If a builder lives near you that will share some time with you it makes it alot easier. Even so it took me over 160 hours to build the rifle and bursitus in both shoulders (I did not have a proper shop and used one hand as a vice while working with the other for many hours). I used all hand tools as I owned no power tools. It was a great experience and I value my rifle highly and my grandkids will too, I hope. If you don't want to face all of that, buy a gun in the white and finish it (still alot of work).

 

[tusti]

That's exactly how I feel about my guns. I made them from bits and pieces I got from Track and not necessarly one particular style or school. I guess southern mountain would best describe them, but I built what I wanted and they are all mine. I don't feel advanced enough to try any carving or inlaying as such, but I'm sure not ashamed to show up with they at the range.
Do your own thing and don't worry about what others may think. :m2c:

 

[Rick L.]

There are many good quality kits out there that have most of the difficult process done for you. If you want to expand your skillsets try one of the better quality kits, maybe from TVM or someone like that. There is nothing more satisfying than shooting and hunting with a rifle you had a major hand in building. Even if your first try does not come out perfect it is still your handiwork.

My first rifle was a CVA mountain rifle kit that actually turned out pretty nice. I still use it ocaisionally to deer hunt with.

Beware, if you build one you will build many more if you are any good at all with your hands.

The Log Cabin Shop in Lodi, Ohio has many stocks precarved for specific locks, barrels etc. This has been a great way for me to get in to different styles of rifle without breaking the home budget. I f you call them and tell them what you are looking for they will put a kit together for you. They also have a guy who will build what you buy for what I think is a very reasonable price. I have seen his work and it is very good.

Hope this helps, good luck in the Adirondaks. I hunted black bear there about ten years ago with a 54. cal early Virginia rifle and took a nice 350lb male. Beautiful country.

Rick

 

[nvbirdman]

I built a Lyman GPR caplock from a kit. I can see many flaws. Everybody else thinks it's great. I think everybody is smarter than me.
All kidding aside, if you put together a less expensive one, and study it with a critical eye for about a year, you will see a few things you could have improved upon. :m2c:

 

[Tommy Bruce]

A lot of good info so far might as well add my experience. I've build one smoothbore from a mold and gunshop kit and currently working on a rifle from a stock blank. I have done all the work on both guns at a friends shop using his tools while I start my own collection. Without his guidance I never would've finished the first one. If you have your heart set on building your own try and find someone who has experience to help. Most folks I've talked to are more than willing to help out. This board is a perfect example. The kits from track or mold and gun shop and many of these places will not just snap in place. The last bit of inletting and final fitting is often the most challenging. I'd also recomend staying away from the power tools at first. Hand tools take a lot longer but are much more forgiving. One slip with a dremel tool and you have an expensive piece of firewood. Buying tools isn't cheap, you may very easily end up with as much money wrapped up in them as your kit for quality stuff. As far as curly maple goes it can be difficult to work with. I'd stay with plain maple. It's easier to carve and if you do mess up really bad it is a cheaper piece of firewood.
All of this being said, I would not trade my building experience for anything. It makes you appreciate the folks who do it for a living and understand why a quality gun is so expensive. It also teaches you what to look for in the way of mistakes on a finished rifle.
As far as having a gun to hunt with this fall you'll be hard pressed to find a builder to get one done by then. Most have a waiting period of several months to a year and a half. It will also be a challenge to do one yourself by then. From one "newbie" to another take your time, decide on the gun you want, do a ton of reading on the subject and find some help. This is one of the most addictive hobbies there is. If this is the only gun you want to build it may be cheaper to buy one complete. However once you build one the bug hits you hard. Enjoy and good luck

 

[Stonecutter]

"I doubt that you can have any rifle that has to be built in time to take hunting this fall. "

A true statement. Figure on at least 100 hours on average. And that's if you have your own tools. The gun I'm building (my first one by the way) has taken way over 100 hours because I'm being taught by an experienced gun builder and using his shop when either he or I am available.

Now, having said that, what motivated me to build my own was that when in the field and somebody says, "where'd you get the gun?", after the head swelling goes down :thumbsup:
I'll be able to say, "I didn't buy it. I built it." It then truely becomes "your gun". Only my humble opinion of course.

On the subject of your Jaeger kit, I'm thinking of doing one for my next gun. Where did you get yours and would you recommend them or no?

 

[dryfly]

ADKhunter:

I build my own and can give you some information. First get a couple of books on how to do it. Next get the stock with the barrel and lock already inlet (it will save much time and work). Get the proper tools; the local hardware does not carry them so get them from a ML shop.
I get most of my stuff from Log Cabin, it is done right and with a little patience you can do a nice job. Also I hear Jim Chambers (see web site) has a real good kit. He hooks you up with a barrel maker and you buy that separately which saves you the 11% excise tax on a completed rifle.
Now just read up on what you want to do and enjoy the experience.