Newbie Looking for Advice on Failed Ignition of Main Charge

[Newbert]

I have to disagree with ETERRY . Pulling a ball is no big deal if you have a decent range rod and puller. I have pulled at least 100 over the years when helping people at the range. My other question is why can't you just remove the lock to get the liner out.

I suppose I could do that as well but I saw removal of the barrel from the stock as easier. Though it is quite firmly wedged into the stock on my model haha.

 

[TrophyGuy]

First some housekeeping. Per our rules we Do Not Discuss the Making or using of DIY Black Powder. PERIOD. Just a warning for a new member but it will get your account deleted if repeated.

I am fairly new to flintlocks, about 6 years vs 44 years with caplocks. But I know if I don't prick my charge with my vent pick after loading there's a good chance it won't go bang. The load needs a place for the flash charge to land in the chamber, I would imagine especially with home made powder.

My advice is to make a vent pick; mine is a piece of baling wire I heated and hammered the end in a vice.
Get some factory made real black powder, substitutes won't work for this. You can try picking a few grains of what you're using for main charge out of the chamber thru the vent, then try to force a few grains of the real stuff back in. You don't need much holy black to ignite the remainder.
Mark your ramrod with a marker where bottom is, then where your loaded round is, this way you know when you're fully seated.
Does your rifle have a vent liner? If you can unscrew the liner you're golden. Unscrew it, scrape out the offending powder, replace with store made. Again, lyou only need a small amount as a primary charge to ignite the rest.
Did you moisten or lube the patch before loading it? Did you swab the bore of the rifle after you got it? There could be a glob of packing grease that is causing problems?

if you swabbed the barrel I'd try getting a few grains of store bought fffg in your barrel before pulling the ball.
I'm sure others will have more advice, but first we need answers to our questions to help diagnose your situation.

I cannot find the forum rules that prohibit discussion of this topic. I don't mean to dispute the rule. I just can't find it. The Terms and Conditions seem reasonable, but could apply to membership in any website. No topical prohibitions. We must have them somewhere. I see political content here which is noteworthy. Some forums outright ban it. Please direct me to the rules.

 

[Eterry]

I cannot find the forum rules that prohibit discussion of this topic. I don't mean to dispute the rule. I just can't find it. The Terms and Conditions seem reasonable, but could apply to membership in any website. No topical prohibitions. We must have them somewhere. I see political content here which is noteworthy. Some forums outright ban it. Please direct me to the rules.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Thank you for the warning. I will be sure not to discuss that topic further.

To answer your questions: Yes there is a touch hole liner which I am able to remove.

The patch was a store bought "Wonderlube" patch so no issues there (I think)

I did not swab the barrel with anything since getting it new from the factory.

You're suggesting it's possible to prime the shot from behind? I had not considered that, a good deal of the BP has been blown out by poor attempts at using compressed air to push the ball out. I'm unsure if there's a proper load in there anymore. Sort of Schrödinger's charge. Unless its possible to gently coax enough in there to actually push the ball out. I've seen it done on nipple models but they seem a different beast.

Is there a risk to ball pulling? I have ordered the tool bit online but haven't got it yet.

Since you didn't clean the initial storage grease from your new gun, it comes as no surprise to me that your new rifle can't be fired.

The ball must be pulled. Or dispensed with compressed gas such as a CO2 discharger. Or, clean as much of the packing grease from the touch hole and fill the void with powder. Fire at a range as the powder you loaded may go off. Not a pleasant experience to have in your home. You will end up with a very fouled bore that must be cleaned to remove fouling and storage grease.

 

[bpd303]

Doesn't say anything about using DIY powders.....

Kinda splitting hairs, ya think. When in doubt...don't is my motto.

 

[Newbert]

Since you didn't clean the initial storage grease from your new gun, it comes as surprise to me that your new rifle can't be fired.

The ball must be pulled. Or dispensed with compressed gas such as a CO2 discharger. Or, clean as much of the packing grease from the touch hole and fill the void with powder. Fire at a range as the powder you loaded may go off. Not a pleasant experience to have in your home. You will end up with a very fouled bore that must be cleaned to remove fouling and storage grease.

It's because of my poor quality powder and poorly seated ball I think.

 

[Newbert]

Well, today I built a nice frame to hole the barrel and safely discharge the ball, I loaded the back with as much 4fg I could and reinstalled the touch hole liner, inserted a fuse into it, put on my hearing and got a bucket of water and fire extinguisher and lit it.

Nothing, Kaput. I waited 10 mins, cleaned it out, put more powder in, another fuse. Nothing!

I'm real stumped. I guess I will try the puller. I am tempted to remove the breech plug but I keep seeing other threads saying its a mistake to try

 

[Colonial Boy]

Well, today I built a nice frame to hole the barrel and safely discharge the ball, I loaded the back with as much 4fg I could and reinstalled the touch hole liner, inserted a fuse into it, put on my hearing and got a bucket of water and fire extinguisher and lit it.

Nothing, Kaput. I waited 10 mins, cleaned it out, put more powder in, another fuse. Nothing!

I'm real stumped. I guess I will try the puller. I am tempted to remove the breech plug but I keep seeing other threads saying its a mistake to try

By nothing do you mean no reaction at all?
I’d keep trying.
Try again but first make sure the ball hasn’t moved, put in more powder, then put the fuse in till it is in contact with the powder, [or put the fuse in and then push powder in around it] cut it off so that you can screw the liner back in with the fuse inside it, having done this the end of the fuse should be just inside the liner vent, cut another piece of fuse and push it in so that it contacts the previous bit of fuse, light and hope.

 

[Grenadier1758]

It's because of my poor quality powder and poorly seated ball I think.

No, it's the grease. Poor powder and badly seated ball may contribute, but first you need to get the powder lit. Leaving the vent liner out allowed too much of the burning powder to blow out the vent and left the main charge alone. Do as @Colonial Boy suggests or get a zerk grease fitting to screw in place of the touch hole liner and use a grease gun to use grease to push all your storage grease, bad powder and poorly seated ball out. Now you will need to clean all that grease out. Not as bad a mess as it sounds.

 

[Daveboone]

Sounds likely grease in the barrel....Any new gun...totally take down and thoroughly clean....But.....keep in mind....it is possible to leave enough oil/whatever, residue in the breech to prevent ignition. Before shooting, thoroughly swab the barrel.
Every muzzleloader will dry load eventually...usually sooner than later. A ball puller is vital...as is a good solid range rod...I have a nice brass t handle that threads in my ram rod also...it is very handy. Best thing about the T handle is it is easy to find something (last resort I have stood on it) for enough pull. Doesnt hurt to give it an extra shot of whatever ya got...windex, WD40, etc. to help lube it on its way. Make sure your ball puller is sized for your bore. IF yours doesnt have the spacer, it is very likely for you to thread it between the ball and the barrrel, and that dont work good. All ball pullers are not created equal..be sure what you order has a good pointy screw on the end Thompson Centers are decent.
All ML is a bit of a learning curve...flintlocks just a bit more.

 

[Newbert]

No, it's the grease. Poor powder and badly seated ball may contribute, but first you need to get the powder lit. Leaving the vent liner out allowed too much of the burning powder to blow out the vent and left the main charge alone. Do as @Colonial Boy suggests or get a zerk grease fitting to screw in place of the touch hole liner and use a grease gun to use grease to push all your storage grease, bad powder and poorly seated ball out. Now you will need to clean all that grease out. Not as bad a mess as it sounds.

Yeah greasy gummed up, bad powder residue, its a mess in there now.

I thought the zerk fittings only screwed into cap nipples, I dont own a grease gun but I will look into a neighbor having any maybe...

At this point I think my best bet is to try the ball puller. I have read some good advice involving attaching the bit to a metal cleaning rod which I do have and then putting the barrel in a vise and using a soft material hammer to knock the handle of the rod to prevent tearing the core out of the ball.

Another sad fact to just hear. Canada this year banned the sale of BP without a full gun license. That is unfortunate since I dont have one, I love history and I think flints are really cool but tbh if im gonna go get that paperwork filed away I might have just gone for the cap version haha...

 

[Lead Nuggets]

Yeah greasy gummed up, bad powder residue, its a mess in there now.

I thought the zerk fittings only screwed into cap nipples, I dont own a grease gun but I will look into a neighbor having any maybe...

At this point I think my best bet is to try the ball puller. I have read some good advice involving attaching the bit to a metal cleaning rod which I do have and then putting the barrel in a vise and using a soft material hammer to knock the handle of the rod to prevent tearing the core out of the ball.

Another sad fact to just hear. Canada this year banned the sale of BP without a full gun license. That is unfortunate since I dont have one, I love history and I think flints are really cool but tbh if im gonna go get that paperwork filed away I might have just gone for the cap version haha...

Pulling a ball isn’t that bad. MyTraditions gets stubborn when I run to wet of a cleaning patch. Run your ball puller in and a little soap and water down the barrel to aid in extraction. I choke the wrist with a ratchet strap and lay it on my gun case in the bed of my truck bed and pull it out.

 

[Lead Nuggets]

Welcome to the Forum!

 

[nick_1]

I have had very mixed luck pulling balls and watched other folks fail as well. often the threads strip out of the soft lead and the ball is still in there.

 

[smo]

Yeah greasy gummed up, bad powder residue, its a mess in there now.

I thought the zerk fittings only screwed into cap nipples, I dont own a grease gun but I will look into a neighbor having any maybe...

At this point I think my best bet is to try the ball puller. I have read some good advice involving attaching the bit to a metal cleaning rod which I do have and then putting the barrel in a vise and using a soft material hammer to knock the handle of the rod to prevent tearing the core out of the ball.

Another sad fact to just hear. Canada this year banned the sale of BP without a full gun license. That is unfortunate since I dont have one, I love history and I think flints are really cool but tbh if im gonna go get that paperwork filed away I might have just gone for the cap version haha...

Be sure to lube/ soap/ oil the barrel good prior too screwing in the ball puller..

It will help the ball too slide back out..

We use a tee handle on a range rod tied to a overhead limb or rafter…Pull straight down on the gun and the stuck ball will come out..

If at home, I like using my air compressor..

 

[Grenadier1758]

Yeah greasy gummed up, bad powder residue, its a mess in there now.

I thought the zerk fittings only screwed into cap nipples, I dont own a grease gun but I will look into a neighbor having any maybe...

At this point I think my best bet is to try the ball puller. I have read some good advice involving attaching the bit to a metal cleaning rod which I do have and then putting the barrel in a vise and using a soft material hammer to knock the handle of the rod to prevent tearing the core out of the ball.

The grease fittings can be threaded for their intended use. Be sure to take your vent liner to the auto parts store so they can determine the correct thread pitch for the grease (zerk) fitting.

You should also have a proper ball puller with a collar to keep the threaded tip centered on the ball. These from Track of the Wolf are good. Get the correct thread pitch for your metal working rod. Look through the page below for the 50 caliber ball puller. It may be less stress on the barrel to put the rod in the vise and pull the barrel.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/839/1

 

[longcruise]

I have had very mixed luck pulling balls and watched other folks fail as well. often the threads strip out of the soft lead and the ball is still in there.

I have seen this too.

Be sure to lube/ soap/ oil the barrel good prior too screwing in the ball puller..

It will help the ball too slide back out..

Probably a good idea but if it doesn't work, any powder that was not contaminated Probably is now. So that and the possibility of a hole through the ball precludes shooting it out. A hole through the ball might prevent the grease gun method as well as pressure from a co2 discharge or air compressor.

Some of these methods can make the problem worse to the point where breech plug removal is the only solution. I'm not a flint shooter but having seen how some vents are installed it's probably possible to dryball with the ball blocking the vent. That leaves ball puller or plug removal.

Since I'm (not yet) a flint shooter I'm broadly disqualified from commenting and I could be way off.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Hello all. I am brand new to flintlocks and after much research and planning I took my Rifle, A Traditions Hawken .50 cal woodsman flintlock, out to the range with no success.

The black powder successfully ignited on the pan 100% of the time but No matter how much I attempted reloading the pan. I could never get the powder to fire. this has led me in the position of now having to wait for a bullet puller to come in the mail to get the thing out.

there are a number of factors that could be contributing to this issue and I don't wish to waste anyone's time. so I will try and be as succinct and thorough as possible.

1. while I would have considered the touch hole to be cleared before heading out I did not bring any wire or suitable implement to actually insert into the hole so it may have ended up clogged by the initial firing attempt.

2. Deleted by Moderator.

3. Try as I might, The ball was NOT properly seated, I only discovered this poking around with a cleaning rod and realizing with the handle's leverage I could still go deeper...

I really dont have any practical experience, I would love to hear anyone's perspective or advice. I have a lot of ideas where to go but I'm not looking to Elmer Fudd myself.

Thank you for reading!

I have an air compressor at home that I used for working on cars for years. One of the tools is an end that has a cone shaped rubber tip. I put that tip in the touch hole and pull the trigger on the tool to shoot a quick burst of compressed air anywhere between about 80 and 100psi down the barrel and it shoots it right out. So be sure to point in a safe direction.

If you don't have an air compressor, or a friend that has one, buy one of those hand held unloader tools that uses a CO2 cartridge to do the same thing. Those work fine and I keep one in my shooting box should I need an immediate solution while away from home.
You can find them in lots of places and also on line. Heck I think even Walmart has them. Anyhow, here's a link to one of them at Log Cabin:

Log Cabin - Co2 discharger/unloader

 

[Grenadier1758]

At Walmart, they are sold as bicycle tire inflators.

 

[Eterry]

I have to disagree with ETERRY . Pulling a ball is no big deal if you have a decent range rod and puller. I have pulled at least 100 over the years when helping people at the range. My other question is why can't you just remove the lock to get the liner out.

Luckily, I've only had to pull one ball. I've watched many do it, usually new to the hobby without proper tools, and it rarely went well.
How many have posted here about disasters while trying to pull a ball??
I think there are easier ways to fix this particular issue, like unscrewing the vent liner.