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Newbie Question -- Starting a round ball

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skishooter

Pilgrim
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Apr 1, 2007
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I took my .54 cal TC Renegade to the range today for the first time. I had a heck of a time starting the patched ball. I am using a Hornady .530 ball with Muzzleloader Original lubed patches (.50-.59 cal .015th). I was using a short starter but a hammer would have helped. Once I got it started I was able to ram it down. Any advice would be appreciated!
 
takes a good rap w/ the heel of your hand on the short starter. ive had days of extended shooting where i ended up w/ a bruise!

another way to do it is to get your weight onto the short starter ... but i dont recommend getting any part of your body over the bore due to the potential for a cookoff (especially if using blackpowder). hasnt ever happened to me, but ive seen it happen (thankfully before a projectile was placed in the bore). its a well-established rule and a safe practice :winking:
 
Try a lighter weight patch - you shouldn't have to hammer the ball to get it started down the barrel.
I've seen guys do it and swear you need to for accuracy - I would think this would flatten the ball :hmm:
 
I had the same problem when I first started out.

A good smack with the palm of your hand on the short starter should get it going. If you can't get it started easily like that then maybe consider coning your muzzle.

HD
 
First of all, welcome to the Forum!

Could it be possible that you tried to put two patches stuck together down the bore?? If not, then just go with a .010 patch and shoot the gun in for a while and let us know how you do.

You may also want to give conicals a try...but be forewarned, that habbit can get expensive unless you cast your own! It does feel like you shot something though! I use conicals most of the time!

Give the gun a good thorough cleaning and try again!

All the best, Dave
 
If you can't start the ball with a tap on the short starter, your patch is too thick. I know that there are a lot of people who insist that pounding the ball to make sure a .018 patch is used , but I tried that, found that my use of even .015 made every loading a nightmare, and switched to .010 for all of my rifles...I'm not a great shot, and getting worse the older I get, but I've noticed no change in the rifles' accuracy...and, just to check it out, sometimes I shoot from the bench...I don't recall seeing any illustrations of Morgan's Riflemen pounding away with mallets in the battle line...Hank
 
Look for .012 or .010 thick patching and try them. Always pick up fired patches on the ground in front of your muzzle, and check them to see if they are tearing, or have burn holes in them, etc. I had to take a file handle, wrap some emery cloth around the end of it, and smooth off the sharp ends of the rifling at the muzzle to get my balls to seat easier and without cutting the patch on those sharp edges. Then, I got some decent accuracy out of the gun.

If this gun is a keeper, its worth considering have the muzzle coned, to easy in loading the patch and round ball. That keeps the ball ROUND in the barrel, and not with a flattened shape from that sharp blow to the short starter. You are not going to notice the change in accuracy at 25 yards, or even at 50 yards. But at 100 yards, how you treat that ball when its loaded begins to show. I was very frustrated with my groups at the longer range until I spent an hour at the range at Friendship watching how the shooters loaded their PRB for the long range shooting. The jag heads were coned to perfectly fit the arc of the round ball they were loading, and they did not " whack " anything. The ball was centered, and the shorter starter was used to push the ball into the muzzle. Half the shooters were using pre-cut patches, and the other were still cutting their patches at the muzzle with a razor. The ball was carefully and slowly run down to a mark on the range rod to seat it on the powder. Their loading technique was subtly different from my own, but when I went home and tried their ways, it made a lot of difference in the groups at longer ranges.
 
IMHO, most hard loading problems are due to a improperly crowned barrel.

Paul is right on about removing that sharp edge on the inside of the crown using 120-180 grit emery, progressing to 320 or 400 grit to finish.

I had a rifle that was a real bear to start and I wasn't using a patch/ball combination that was all that tight. A very accomplished shooter suggested that I radius the inside of the crown just enough to remove that sharp edge delineating the crown from the rifling.

This rifle is now the easiest loading gun I have and accuracy is even better than before.
J.D.
 
:rotf: :blah: Howdy and welcome Amigo.

All bad advice up there there, all you need to do is get a large maul/sledge and hammer the Hell out of the ball till it fits in there. Of course for hunting purposes you might find it difficult to carry the maul around in the woods, in which case take everyone elses advice!

Hope that clears it all up for you and welcome again, anything to help.
:rotf: :blah:

rabbit03 ( the mauler)
 
Thank you all for the responses. The rifle is definitely a keeper. The first shot off the bench went right into the bull at 25yds. The next three shots I took offhand were close. I gave up after that because trying to get the ball in was aggravating my elbow which I strained the day before while putting my summer tires on.

I am going to try a .010 patch as well as smooth the edge at the crown as suggested. I think a thinner patch may make a difference as I used a thinner patch while cleaning the barrell and it went in a lot easier.

I have afeeling this muzzleloading stuff gets addicting...
 
Never ever work on a gun that you haven't taken the time to measure. Get someone's calipers, and measure both the land and groove diameters of the barrel. If you don't have calipers, take the barrel to a machine shop and ask the guys to take a reading for you. Note it on paper. The land diameter tells you the size of ball you want to load. The groove diameter gives you an idea of how thick the patch needs to be to seal the gases so they don't cut the patchs and fire cut the round ball. Its obvious that the .015" patches were sealing the barrel, from the accuracy you experienced. Measure that patching. Never EVER accept the size it says on the package, or on the sign where you buy the stuff. A micrometer in your pocket can pay big dividends when you buy patching materials. Always measure everything. Same goes for the balls you buy precast. Measure them. Find out if they are actually round, or are they out of round. It may not make any difference in how they shoot, but then again, it can.
 
If you don't have paul v's caliper you might have to listen to an old fart like me.
According to the 1997 Dixie Catalog, the TC Renegade .50 cal rifle has a .500 dia bore and .510 dia grooves. That makes the rifleing .005 deep which may explain why you were having such a problem loading it.

When most folks on this forum are talking about patch thickness, they are shooting rifles with .010-.015 deep grooves and the thick patches are needed to seal off the bore.
With the .005 deep rifling your gun has, IMO you could use .010 thick patches without any problem.

Also, I have to agree with the others about using fine sandpaper to round off the sharp edges of the rifleing at the muzzle.
If you start with some 150 grit wet/dry (black) paper just use your thumb or index finger to poke it a little way into the muzzle. Then use a radial motion around the mouth of the bore to sand the rifleing.
Repeat this using 220, 320 and 600 grit paper using the same method.
If you don't like the bright shiny metal at the muzzle, you can always touch it up with a little instant bluing. No one will notice it.

zonie :)
 
I still have an old fashioned " scissor " style caliper that I bought at a hardware store many years ago for a couple of dollars. Still works. You use it in conjunction with a micrometer. You can buy a dial caliper for as little as $20.00. these days, from some sources on line. Midway has a nicely priced caliper that does the trick.

I agree with Zonie's assessment. I don't have access to your particular rifle, so I would have only been guessing at what kind of grooves are cut into it. My first ML rifle was an import, with " grooves " that were scratches to the inside of the barrel. It actually had little burrs running the length of the barrel that serves as " lands " in the barrel. BUT
 
Mornin skishooter
I got me a 527 ball mold from Lee and made / tried some in mine, That might help ya,,
 
I paid $15.00 and some change for a pair of Chinese made digital calipers that are as accurate as the high dollar set used by Quality Control at the machine shop where I work. On sale sometimes at Harbor Freight or Checker Auto if there's one near you.
Didn't think I would ever use them, now I can't live without them. Bill
 
Dial calipers are so useful I have three sets of them.
Two are just the mechanical dial type and one is a digital.
The digital seems to be the most accurate however, twice (in two years) the battery has pooped out.

For those not familiar with dial calipers, they measure outside features, inside features and depths to an accuracy of +/-.0005 (one half thousandths of an inch).

zonie :)

I spent $29 for the used RCBS mechanical caliper and $20 each for the other two.
 
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