Newbie question

[J.M.]

Hello everyone, I am thinking of getting back into muzzleloading after a long time away from it. I always shot a TC Pennsylvania Hunter or Renegade in percussion. I am very intrigued by flintlocks and might go this route. I am also interested in smoothbores because I could use the same gun for small game and deer hunting, rather than buying different guns for each (cant use rifles for small game due to population density/game laws).
My question (one of many) is how difficult is it to shoot accurately shoot a smoothbore with roundball? Also, I have always shot guns with adjustable sights. If your smoothbore shoots high/low or left/right of your target, can this be adjusted somehow, or are you forced to use "Kentucky Windage" I.E. if the gun shoots low and left you must aim high and right etc? I apprecitate your assistance in this, as I need to make up my mind soon if I am going to have something to use this fall. Thanks!

 

Well...I'm a newbie to smoothies also and after being completely corrupted by these guys here I bought a .62 smoothie for my Renegade. Do you still have a Renegade with 1" barrel channel? If so Green Mountain makes a .62 ( 20 gauge) smooth bore barrel that will fit the T/C?
If you have a T/C get the G.M. barrel, some .595 balls and you can get the same dismal result I get! :curse:
Mine does, however, make one dandy 20 ga. shotgun.
Others have done o.k. with patched r/b but I honestly haven't had the time to tinker with mine enough to get a good load worked up.
I have however, gotten a one shot .62 diameter group at 25 yards. It was the only shot that hit the old Buick I was using as a target. :haha: :haha:

 

I know people who can shoot a smooth bore with close if not the same accuracies as a rifle; my friend "falsears "is one of them.
I hope when he reads this he will chime in with his views on smoothbore verse rifle as he is just starting both flintlock and smoothbore.

IMO the .62/20 gage is a great all around cal /gage. I do have a .45 smoothie, however its a cap lock and I don

 

[J.M.]

Thanks for the replies. Maxiball, I sold the renegade long ago, so right now I dont own any muzzleloaders. Captchee, I should have clarified my thought on small game hunting. I would load a smoothbore with shot. I could shoot it for bird
hunting or squirrels, similar to a modern shotgun. We are not allowed to shoot rifles or single profectiles for squirrels/rabbits etc. If the gun had a rear sight, would this be helpful in zeroing it in? I only need accuracy out to aprx 50yards, the woods in most areas are dense and it is unusual to shoot much past this distance. I've never shot a flint gun, and only seen one smoothbore "in the flesh" a .62 cal Centermark Fusil that seemed decent, but I'm not sure what a good gun consists of at this point.

 

[Stumpkiller]

My question (one of many) is how difficult is it to shoot accurately shoot a smoothbore with roundball?

Depends entirely on your vision and how hard you work at it. If you are good with a traditional stickbow you will find a smoothbore & rounball has almost three times the effective range.

The point of impact can be manipulated by judicious bending of the barrel, but I've never had the nerve to try; and luckily never had the need.

 

Well IMO
In a smooth bore such as a fowler or fusil you don

 

[Falsears]

J.M. I am Falsears, Captchee's friend. I have been shooting BP for nine years, all caplock production guns. I recently purchased a Cabela's .50 Blue Ridge Flinter and Captchee is helping me through the learning curve on it. At the same time I have been shooting his English Fowler .62 smoothbore that he built from parts from TOTW. I shoot better with the fowler than any gun ever, for the following reasons. First it is perfectly balanced, second it is lighter, especially in the front, than production guns,and it is built to fit me physically, I do not have to struggle to hold or sight the gun. As an example we recently went to a rendezvous to a smooth bore shoot, my first. I hit nine out of ten shots with Captchee's fowler. The one shot I missed was with someone elses production smoothbore. The last shot was a 200+ yard uphill shot that I could not hit with my Blue Ridge. For me a smoothbore will do anything a rifled gun will if it is set up right and fits you.

 

Gentlemen, I also know people that shoot smothbores very well and do some amazing things with their well built, custom fit guns. The same people also shoot well built rifles very well and badly built guns very badly. Do you realize what you are saying here?

[We have access to a custom built smoothbore that shoots better than a low grade, badly built production rifle...therefore any well built smothbore will shoot better than any rifle, if set up properly.]

This is like doing a road test between a Corvette and an Escort and claiming the Escort the superior vehicle based on gas milage results! Your observation would only be valid using weapons of equal quality and a large number of randomly chosen shooters.

If smoothbores shot just as well rifling would have been tried once and disposed as a bad idea around 1400ad, smoothbores would dominate the 1000 yard shooting ranges at the olympics, we would be fighting our wars with full auto muskets, and the major gun manufacturers would not be providing rifled barrels for deer hunters to use on their shotguns.

BTW with reguard to rear sights on smooties, They were common, improved accuracy greatly and changed the term of reference for the weapon from smoothbore to smooth rifle. A smooth rifle has sights, a smoothbore does not. A smooth rifle usually cost half the price of a rifle. They existed as an economic necessity, not because they were superior.

 

[Stumpkiller]

For me a smoothbore will do anything a rifled gun will if it is set up right and fits you.

I shot smoothbore pretty regular for 15 plus years to the exclusion of most rifles. But, when it comes to popping a squirrel or bunny in the head at 35 yards I'd grab for my rifle every time. Same for punching the ticket of a woodchuck at 150 yards in the alfalfa field. Smoothbores are more versitile, but they do have range and accuracy limitations.

 

[roundball]

J.M. I am Falsears, Captchee's friend. I have been shooting BP for nine years, all caplock production guns. I recently purchased a Cabela's .50 Blue Ridge Flinter and Captchee is helping me through the learning curve on it. At the same time I have been shooting his English Fowler .62 smoothbore that he built from parts from TOTW. I shoot better with the fowler than any gun ever, for the following reasons. First it is perfectly balanced, second it is lighter, especially in the front, than production guns,and it is built to fit me physically, I do not have to struggle to hold or sight the gun. As an example we recently went to a rendezvous to a smooth bore shoot, my first. I hit nine out of ten shots with Captchee's fowler. The one shot I missed was with someone elses production smoothbore. The last shot was a 200+ yard uphill shot that I could not hit with my Blue Ridge. For me a smoothbore will do anything a rifled gun will if it is set up right and fits you.

Now, I noticed your closing sentence starts with the words "for me" and that may be the saving grace of your whole smoothbore vs. rifle paragraph...if not for that disclaimer, I expect people who have experience with both would view that statement as somewhat of a stretch, unless it's written in a way that you didn't intend for it to sound.
For example, I'm pretty sure smoothbores can't compete in accuracy & consistency in a side x side comparion with a rifle of most any caliber...but if you simply meant "ringing a gong" so-to-speak, at known distances, that could be a different matter :winking:

 

[Falsears]

I am new to both Flintlock shooting and Smoothbore shooting. I was relating a personal experience only. I do not own a custom gun, I had the opportunity to shoot one. I was not comparing any gun to any other, I do not have the experience for that. J.M. asked about the acquarcy of smoothbores, to which I can only tell my personal experience. Which I enjoyed. This I do not.

 

[Flintshooter in Indiana]

If your new smoothbore (if you by one) shoots high/low/left/right you will need to bend the barrel unless you can adjust with the height of the front sight. Mine was bent in the fork of a tree by a friend at Friendship the year I bought it. (1998) And he remains a friend to this day, I might add. He was a little off and I adjusted by adding a higher front sight. It shoots real well.

Why not throw some shot down that barrel for the squirrels and rabbits Stumpkiller. Don't need that rifle then.

I would purchase a smoothbore from a reputable dealer rather than buying a PRODUCTION gun. You'll get components that parts are readily available for and won't be foreign in nature. Tip Curtis' Frontier Shop has Colerain barreled smoothbores available in kit form, in the white or completed. Also, Jackie Brown makes a nice gun for the price. You can also get octagon barreled smoothbores which have the appearance of a rifle and are completely acceptable to shoot smoothbore matches with. This is only my opinion as to the purchase of a built gun.

Both of these gentlemen will be at Friendship in September, if you are close to there. Good luck whatever you chose. Flintshooter

 

[Stumpkiller]

Why not throw some shot down that barrel for the squirrels and rabbits Stumpkiller? Don't need that rifle then.

Been there, done that, bit shot, seen stars, spit tooth, nuff said.

I've put almost as much shot by weight out as I have ball. It never fails that bunnies run and squirrels leap when I have a ball down the bore; and they hold like statues when I've loaded shot. With the cylinder bore it is stretching to get past 25 yards.

An ancient shot ditty:

Less powder, more lead, shoots far, kills dead.
More powder, less lead, close in, wide spread.

 

guys I think if you re read this topic you will find that what falsears said and what I said to be true.
the question was
==========================================================
I am very intrigued by flintlocks and might go this route. I am also interested in smoothbores because I could use the same gun for small game and deer hunting, rather than buying different guns for each (cant use rifles for small game due to population density/game laws).
My question (one of many) is how difficult is it to shoot accurately shoot a smoothbore with roundball?
==========================================================

Of which I replied to do himself a favor and buy a good gun

 

[J.M.]

Gentlemen, thank you for all the information, I find all of your responses helpful. I think I'll make some calls and see who has smoothbores available for sale. I live in Massachusetts, and although there are a decent number of gun shops around, there is not much in the way of muzzleloaders. I rarely if ever see any flintlocks, and have only seen one smoothbore (a French Fusil). Because of this, I will have a tough time handling something before buying, which is why I posted here. I'm also going to look into some local gun clubs which I have heard may have active muzzleloader groups,and see what I can learn there.
Again, thanks for the help!

 

Yes accurate out to 50 yds and some farther,I had a 11bore with a rear site it would shoot 3" at 50yds. The rear site rule is a modern day rule it did not exist in the real days of old. Many a real smoothie had rear sites ,there were no modern day rear site police. Whatever saved your ass and put meat on the table was fair!!! I never look down on a rear site on a fowler for hunting and woods walks. If I ever want to shoot a trade match I will ,but never have and never will,who gives a hoot. You can always knock out the rear site if you want to follow modern day hogwash!!!! Don't overlook a rear site they work!!!

 

If the barrel is bent to shoot done the tube, a groove at the breech will act as a nice sight and be legal as well. It is a very fast, accurate way of aiming a smoothie.

 

[eat moose meat]

Try (Middlesex village trading company) he is online and has some of the same stuff as military heritage and loyalist arms. He is a nice guy and stands behind his stuff. and he is right there in mass. I have the same problem here in maine I had to move to Pa. for 2 years to get a decent gun. im still looking for another smoothbore. But i want a N.W. gun or a tulle.

 

The 1728 St E'Tienne musket from Military Heritge is very slimilar to a Tulle in stock design, & except for the front band being the double one with sight, with it's round/oct barel, very nic eindeed. The lock form mil/her appeas to be more nicely made than those from Loyalist. This musket was my second choice & would have been sporterized to about 36" to 38" barrel with no fore-end cap or entry pipe, probably, just to llghten the front end. I also plan on using a wooden ramrod to further lighten the front end.
; I have difficulty shooting standing with my .45flinter and Bro's Bess due to muzzle weight pulling on my back muscles - they hates it.

 

[eat moose meat]

I would like a smoothbore that would have been commmon in my neck of the woods in the mid to late 1700s. I have a 12 ga english fowler but im going broke trying to feed it. I just use it for grouse and turkey, bird shot is cheap.I have an ad in the classified section. I have a custom early transitional rfle in 54 Id like to swap for a tulle or a N.W gun. I got the smoothbore bug bad. I had a good season in pennsylvania last year before i moved home to maine. a Buck a doe and 2 turkeys. with my fowler. I cant wait for grouse season here in maine in oct. Im like a kid on chrismas eve.