I'm new to fL's but am hooked. Got a Jaeger kit for $100 and had a smith friend put it together. But have a question concerning torn patches and accuracy. My barrel is 28". When shooting 70 grains 3f at 50 yards accuracy is good. If I try to go to 80grains and 80 yards it is shotgun pattern. I am also find destroyed patches with 80 grains. I am using the brown pillow ticking and anything from a .526 to a .530 ball in a .54 GM barrel. It makes no never mind which size ball, the patch is shredding. Could this because the barrel is so short that it is not burning all the powder and the left over residue in the barrel is causing the patch to tear?
Newby - Torn patches?
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rafterob
62 Cal.
Sharp lands in a new barrel can cut through the patching. That will wear down after a hundred or so shots. Some barrels are rougher than others.
You didn't say what you were using for a patch lube.
IMO, a dry patch is pretty easy to burn which will cause a lot of shredding.
Once a patch is cut, burned or shredded accuracy goes out the window.
Check the crown of your barrel.
If there are sharp edges where the rifling meets the cone or crown radius that could explain how you patch might have been cut.
Once cut during loading or ramming the patch will almost instantly burn thru leading to shredding.
Sharp rifling grooves in a new barrel can also cut the patch.
IMO, a dry patch is pretty easy to burn which will cause a lot of shredding.
Once a patch is cut, burned or shredded accuracy goes out the window.
Check the crown of your barrel.
If there are sharp edges where the rifling meets the cone or crown radius that could explain how you patch might have been cut.
Once cut during loading or ramming the patch will almost instantly burn thru leading to shredding.
Sharp rifling grooves in a new barrel can also cut the patch.
As Ghettogun said - don't change anything until 200 or so shots are through it. You only get new rifling once - don't beat it up prematurely.
And as Zonie said, make sure it has enough lube. Try a thinner patch to eliminate cutting.
And as Zonie said, make sure it has enough lube. Try a thinner patch to eliminate cutting.
Many Klatch
69 Cal.
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Why are you changing your load to shoot at 80 yards? Use the same load as you did at 50 yards. There is no need to be constantly fiddling with your powder measure. Find one that works and learn to use it. I recently shot a target at 400 yards with 75 grains of 3F in my flinter.
The advice about waiting to mess with the barrel until after a couple of hundred shots is golden. It takes about a year of regular shooting to finally get your gun and you dialed in.
Many Klatch
The advice about waiting to mess with the barrel until after a couple of hundred shots is golden. It takes about a year of regular shooting to finally get your gun and you dialed in.
Many Klatch
Thanks for the responses. I am using Moose Milk mainly as lube but have also experimented with Bore Butter. As for going up to 80 grains I was experimenting for a hunting load. Not that 70 or even 65 won't do the job. But I figured that if it was accurate with 80 it might actually bring the shot up a bit so that I don't have to file the front sight down more. I certainly won't monkey with the bore for a hundred or so more rounds. Its already had at least 100 through it.
Try useing a patch on top of powder follow that with patched round ball. The bottom patch will help stop burn thru . If the patch on the ball is still torn, then only continueing to shoot or laping the bore will prevent it. I t may tak a hundred or so rounds to take off sharp edges of rifeling.
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Let's back up...What powder are you using??? Not 777 I hope...Flinters do best with real black...
Now we need to learn what is destroying those patches...They must be 100% cotton or linen, no poly, double check that...
Next, cut a piece of patching about 18 inches long, start a ball and run it down the bore...Pull it back out with the patching...Is it cut??? If so, check the crown and see what is cutting it...
Now we need to learn what is destroying those patches...They must be 100% cotton or linen, no poly, double check that...
Next, cut a piece of patching about 18 inches long, start a ball and run it down the bore...Pull it back out with the patching...Is it cut??? If so, check the crown and see what is cutting it...
Patch is too thin or ball is too small, or both. 70 grains the accuracy is good :hmm: , use a .015 patch & a .535 ball & accuracy will be awesome. BUT it will most likely be harder to load.
But 70 grains in a .54 cal rifle is plenty to kill a whitetail deer. I have killed ? 4-5 a year for the past 13 years with that load. You might find that same load in 2F even more accurate. The 2F will burn a lil slower & less pressure upon ignition. My best accuracy in mine is actually 65 grains of 2F.
But it sounds like you are blowing up the patches with the 80 grains of 3F. When you increase the charge you also increase the pressure against the patch seal & you are getting blow-by...... thus for a heavier charge you need a better seal, = thicker patch or larger ball on a .015 patch. Bad blow-by will turn a cotton patch into a wad of lint.
When I go work loads on a rifle, I usually take a .010 & a .005 under bore sized ball, and about 6 dif patch thicknesses & 3-4 dif. lubes. Always One of the combos is outstanding to all the rest, and then I start working that down. Almost Every Single time the most accurate ball is .005 under bore size & on the load side of a powder charge.
Keith Lisle
PS: Don't do Anything to the barrel.... Just shoot the H out of it, clean it well, dry, lube it. The barrel is not the problem. After 200-400 rounds you will have it all figured out.
But 70 grains in a .54 cal rifle is plenty to kill a whitetail deer. I have killed ? 4-5 a year for the past 13 years with that load. You might find that same load in 2F even more accurate. The 2F will burn a lil slower & less pressure upon ignition. My best accuracy in mine is actually 65 grains of 2F.
But it sounds like you are blowing up the patches with the 80 grains of 3F. When you increase the charge you also increase the pressure against the patch seal & you are getting blow-by...... thus for a heavier charge you need a better seal, = thicker patch or larger ball on a .015 patch. Bad blow-by will turn a cotton patch into a wad of lint.
When I go work loads on a rifle, I usually take a .010 & a .005 under bore sized ball, and about 6 dif patch thicknesses & 3-4 dif. lubes. Always One of the combos is outstanding to all the rest, and then I start working that down. Almost Every Single time the most accurate ball is .005 under bore size & on the load side of a powder charge.
Keith Lisle
PS: Don't do Anything to the barrel.... Just shoot the H out of it, clean it well, dry, lube it. The barrel is not the problem. After 200-400 rounds you will have it all figured out.
mr.flintlock
40 Cal.
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Patch reading is important. If your patches are holding together with 70gr of 3f then I would not think your lands are too sharp not that it is being cut at the crown. I believe that by increasing the powder charge you are burning the patch.It may help you to go to a .535 ball or go to a thicker patch or both. Also, it may help you to go to a different patch lube. I make my patch lube using the following: 2 parts olive oil, 2 parts water, one part alcohol. I keep it in a little squirt bottle and shake it up before squirting it on the patch. This formula allows me to shoot all day without having to clean between shots and I have never had a patch burn through.I agree with others that 70gr of 3f is enough powder for whitetail deer. I use 85gr of 3f in my .58.
Bingo! The likely culprit finally likely nailed.
New barrel can cut but gas blow by is more likely responsible. A .535 ball might be the cure.
Dunno what kind of barrel but lapping with OOOO steel wool will not harm anything and might eliminate sharp edges if that is the cause.
As for charge to use, the twist and actual range time are the determinants for best charge. e.g. my .54 with 1:72" twist needs north of 100 gr. charges to group.
First you have to determine if the patches are cut or burnt. What happens if you short-start a ball in a clean barrel and pull it? How does the patch look?
After numerous lubes and bullet and patch diameter combinations I discovered that the problem was none of the above. Rather it was the rifling at the muzzle. Very sharp edges were putting small nicks in the patch, though not every time. After filing each edge back my shots have turned into a 1" group at 50 yards with no more shredded or hole ridden patches.
Glad to hear you found your problem.
It's a common one on many muzzleloaders.
I would like to mention to the others that if they have sharp edges on their rifling muzzle they should not "file" off the offending sharp edges.
IMO, files are too hard to control and can cause more sharp edges than the original ones if one is not very careful.
In my opinion, a better way to remove these sharp edges on the rifling grooves and where the crown meets the bore is to use some black wet/dry silicone carbide sandpaper. 120 or 220 grit works well.
To do the work, tare off a 1" X 1" piece and lay it on the barrels muzzle.
Then, use your thumb to push the paper down into the bore a ways.
Rotate your thumb back and forth while slowly rotating the barrel. This will grind away the sharp edges in a uniform manner that won't hurt the accuracy of the barrel.
It usually takes several small 1" X 1" pieces of sandpaper to complete the job.
When finished and looking at where the sharp edges used to be you will see some very smooth, gently rounded edges that will never tare a good patch.
This process will leave the area bright so if you don't want the shiny look, some cold gun bluing will make it blend in with the rest of the barrel.
It's a common one on many muzzleloaders.
I would like to mention to the others that if they have sharp edges on their rifling muzzle they should not "file" off the offending sharp edges.
IMO, files are too hard to control and can cause more sharp edges than the original ones if one is not very careful.
In my opinion, a better way to remove these sharp edges on the rifling grooves and where the crown meets the bore is to use some black wet/dry silicone carbide sandpaper. 120 or 220 grit works well.
To do the work, tare off a 1" X 1" piece and lay it on the barrels muzzle.
Then, use your thumb to push the paper down into the bore a ways.
Rotate your thumb back and forth while slowly rotating the barrel. This will grind away the sharp edges in a uniform manner that won't hurt the accuracy of the barrel.
It usually takes several small 1" X 1" pieces of sandpaper to complete the job.
When finished and looking at where the sharp edges used to be you will see some very smooth, gently rounded edges that will never tare a good patch.
This process will leave the area bright so if you don't want the shiny look, some cold gun bluing will make it blend in with the rest of the barrel.
Don Steele
45 Cal.
I got the same EXCELLENT suggestion years ago when I had this problem with my first brand new Green Mtn. bbl. Worked great. Gentle, moderate thumb pressure, constant rotation....patience.
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unless you want to get all brave and cone the muzzle, this is the way to go ...
one guy's opinion, free and well worth the price...
one guy's opinion, free and well worth the price...
MSW said:
Uh-Oh! :stir:
telebasher
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Try some 535 diameter balls and your problems will pretty much disappear. GM barrels are full caliber so use the biggest ball you can cram down the bore and the accuracy will make a believer out of you too. I have eight of their barrels in various calibers and they each exhibit this same trait. Good Luck!
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