NO Smokeless Powder in BP Handguns

[Loyalist Dave]

So this "bright fellow" :youcrazy: posted this video on YouTube about shooting his 1858 Remington repro from Pietta using Hodgdon Clays smokeless powder.

Note: He thinks .44 special data shooting a .429 165gr conical bullet is "close" to his shooting a .451 138gr round ball, and he eyeballs the amount of powder using 2/3 of a half-teaspoon measure! :shake:

He survives and does not blow off his fingers, because he got lucky and chose a very low pressure powder favored by Cowboy Action Shooters, and by using a .451 round ball, the bullet has a lot less friction against the chamber walls in the cylinder, so he unwittingly constructed an obviously (since he doesn't blow up) low pressure load.

However, if he or some other person who happened to see the video and want to try this, accidentally loads a mere 1 grain more, they are maxed out on powder, AND if the loader gets distracted and dumps two loads (assuming he's really using 3.6 grains of Clays), that would be 7.2 gains of Clays and would FAR exceed recommended loads in the Hodgdon manual for a modern handgun, let alone the Pietta copy of the 1858 Remington.., so a good chance at BOOOOOOM!

Smokeless Powder in 1858 Remington

LD

 

[Maven]

An accident waiting to happen! :youcrazy: Good lord, I only use 3.1gr. CLAYS in my .38Spl. [S & W M 10] revolver with cast bullets, either WC's or SWC's!

 

[Artificer]

In the early 1980's, a Stafford County Deputy Sheriff brought a loaded repro Walker Colt into our shop at Quantico to get it unloaded.

It seems a crook fired one shot at the Deputy with the pistol (and missed), then yelled loudly and fell down unconscious. After a short wait to make sure the crook was not faking it, the Deputy approached the guy and noticed an indentation on his forehead and it had begun bleeding a bit. The indentation was from the tip of the hammer spur that hit the crook in the forehead during recoil.

I got called to do the job of unloading it and though the Deputy didn't mention it, I did my best to preserve the evidence. It was loaded with cast modern bullets and smokeless powder in each of the remaining five chambers. Though I didn't know what kind of smokeless powder was in it, there was way too much, no matter what kind. The crook was lucky the pistol didn't turn into a shrapnel grenade in his hands.

I got the caps off the nipples with a piece of wood and saved the caps. Not knowing what kind of powder was under the modern cast bullets, I soaked the cylinder in penetrating oil for three days. Then I pulled the balls and saved each along with the powder from each chamber. I didn't clean the revolver further, because I thought it would still be needed as evidence. Then I called the Sheriff's Office to let them know they could come pick it up.

Turned out the crook already pled guilty in a plea bargain, so he only got sentenced to five years in prison compared to a lot more time he could have received.

Gus

 

[azmntman]

Yep...the end of You tube arrives shortly. Waiting to read about the guy in the next trailer over grabbing a tablespoon stead of teaspoon and loading up. Maybe we can catch a chain fire before the shut down? :shake: (and they vote) :shocked2:

 

[bigted]

I had seen this before and noted it on a couple other forums as a warning to new folks that may see it. Did not occur to me to post here as this group seems to be in full control of their faculties ... but ... in retrospect i see that you are correct in posting this warning here as well.

Thanks for doing so and i sincerely hope that that gets pulled as it is so very DANGEROUS.

Some peoples kids huh?

 

[NorthFork]

That fellow is a maroon (old cartoon reference).

 

[russellshaffer]

I saw that too. It does make me very confident in my Pietta. I don't have to worry about it coming apart with BP loads. That guy has been lucky so far - he could have grabbed a different powder off the shelf.

 

[FishDFly]

Folks are always posting about YouTube like to is the greatest thing around.

Anyone can make a video, but a video is not always factual like folks here think it is.

 

[NorthFork]

Amen to that!

 

[Kansas Jake]

How does one measure a consistent 2/3 of a teaspoon! Wait till some adolescent gets hold of grandpa's old original remington on the desk or a different brand (I have a 40 year old Euroarms Remy). I would hate to think what might happen.

 

[Zonie]

...

Note: He thinks .44 special data shooting a .429 165gr conical bullet is "close" to his shooting a .451 138gr round ball, and he eyeballs the amount of powder using 2/3 of a half-teaspoon measure! :shake:

...

LD

I know it was unintentional but, the amount of powder he used was 2/3 of a quarter-teaspoon measure.

If he had used 2/3 of a half-teaspoon of powder I think his video would have shown how stupid it is to mess with any smokeless powder in any amount in a black powder gun.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

OOOPS, My error :redface:

bigted wrote:
Did not occur to me to post here as this group seems to be in full control of their faculties

I am in complete agreement, but I posted it because there are new folks who come to the forum from time to time, and I'm hoping such a warning gets to them rather than finding out "the hard way" that this was a dumb idea. :wink:

:idunno:

LD

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi Guys,
It leaves me wondering WHY this moron was given any air time here.
It is in our creed NOT to use any modern smokeless powder in any of our muzzle loading guns.
Even viewing the video gives someone the idea that it is a little bit safe to use any variant of smokeless.
Yeah, I know, I don't have to read the post.
Always remember there are always new black powder shooters coming to visit.
Myself, viewing the video, says that maybe, could be safe to try it. NO!
I'll crawl back into my corner and watch the world go by.
Fred

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

What boobery!! :cursing:

Any FOOL with a camera can do anything on YouTube.

Doesn’t mean it’s safe!!

 

[Zonie]

Hi Guys,
It leaves me wondering WHY this moron was given any air time here.
It is in our creed NOT to use any modern smokeless powder in any of our muzzle loading guns.
Even viewing the video gives someone the idea that it is a little bit safe to use any variant of smokeless.
Yeah, I know, I don't have to read the post.
Always remember there are always new black powder shooters coming to visit.
Myself, viewing the video, says that maybe, could be safe to try it. NO!
I'll crawl back into my corner and watch the world go by.
Fred

If the gist of this topic was saying that doing what the idiot in the video did was at all safe I would have removed the topic right away.

Since almost all of the responses to it have been against using smokeless powder in any form for any reason, I think the topic is serving its purpose and it may well save a newbie from getting his hand blown off (or worse).

That's why it is still here.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Zonie, no justification needed.
I lose my cool when a self expressed gun guru advocates or expresses such a practice, no matter how many caveats he claims.
Every year, we hear of someone innocently makes such an error.
Fred

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I lose my cool when a self expressed gun guru advocates or expresses such a practice, no matter how many caveats he claims.

Unfortunately, there are some good gun guys on YouTube when it comes to modern guns (the guy in this thread isn't one of them) who are fine on modern guns, but make silly mistakes when it comes to black powder... and for the newbie who looks at the guy for modern stuff, then sees the muzzle loader, they may say "hey I'd like to try that" (which is good for us), but can't tell the favorite oracle who is "safe" in other things is making a boner of a mistake. :shocked2:

For example, here is Hickock45 and he's shooting the Brown Bess. Now this guy has some very interesting and safe modern gun videos. If you view the video at time mark 10:10, he has left his OPEN CAN OF GOEX on the table, between himself and the target, and it's not far off to the side, but a few feet over to the right and just in front of his muzzle. Now the lid is fit with a spout, but it's not a valved spout, and it's open when he shoots!

Although he doesn't toss a spark down the spout into the powder...,
..., that's pretty stupid thing to risk, right? AND...He does this TWICE.


So again in both cases the video is presented so that the newbie who comes to the group knows NOT to do these things, AND knows exactly what video is being referenced.

Further it lets all of the rest of us know, should we be speaking to the newbie at the range, or one of those self-appointed-never-used-it-but-still-expert-at-black-powder guys that crop up from time to time at the range, when they mention, "hey I saw this video where a guy [fill in stupid act here]" we can reply..., "Yeah I saw that and this is why that was not a good idea....."

No guarantee that our reply will be heeded..., but at least we can put it out there.

LD

 

[BullRunBear]

I get approached by the curious, especially youngsters at the range, and folks interested in starting with muzzleloaders. I always mention that modern gunpowder MUST NOT be used in these guns, ever, and why. It is part of the safety and history discussion.(To reinforce that, I should probably keep a couple of photos in the shooting box of a rifle and revolver blown up from using smokeless powder.)

It's surprising how often even very experienced shooters have no idea of the differences between BP and smokeless powders.

I always refer people to the Forum here. It's the best single source of information about the guns and other aspects of the hobby that I know of.

Jeff

 

[SDSmlf]

Hold my beer while I ......

Ok, doable for a limited number of times. But the margin for error is so small. Maybe with a set of Lee Powder Measures one could get some consistency, but to eyeball 2/3 of a teaspoon with smokeless.... loading what is basically a hand grande. Guess it is politically incorrect to comment ablution a trailer park, but....

Personally have fired a lot of high pressure cartridge hand gun loads. A grain or two can make a big difference in pressure. Have a number of reproduction cap and ball revolvers from more than one manufacturer. In my opinion, all of the the cylinders on these reproductions are made of very soft, low tensil strength steel when compared to CF cylinders. Find myself redressing or cleaning up paw grooves or pockets on BP cylinders on regular basis, but never with a CF cylinders. No comparison, BP cap and ball cylinders are NOT designed for smokeless.

Guessing if this genius somehow hurts himself we will here about a dangerous reproduction handgun blowin up law suit. Anyone take bets?

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Redstick Lee]

Hold my beer while I ......


Guessing if this genius somehow hurts himself we will here about a dangerous reproduction handgun blowin up law suit. Anyone take bets?

Just my humble opinion.

and I bet you'd be right !

for load development in CF Peacemakers....I use stainless guns.

and NEVER EVER ANY SMOKELESS OF ANY KIND IN A BP GUN.......PERIOD!!!!!!