Non sparking, new frizzen????

[Sunny the Duck Hunter]

I recently bought a fowler with a Davis lock on it. The frizzen is a little chewed up but sparks good. I decided to replace it anyway. Bought a replacement,it was not drilled for the screw that it pivots on. I miked it and drilled it. Fits good, needs polished. Does not spark. I have read on here about re-carbonizing, heat treating.......... couldn't find the thread. Help?

Thanks,

Sunny

 

[LRB]

It only needs to be heat treated. Heat to red-orange, quench in warm canola oil at about 125°, temper for one hour at 375°. Clean up to bright metal and carefully heat all but the strike plate to a dark blue using a propane torch, taking great care to not let the heat color spread into the strike plate or you will have to start all over.

 

[M. De Land]

I did mine three times with kasnite powder and it sparks good now. I also added some more cock swing travel and that helped as well.
If you had good spark before then your probably good on the cock movement.
I would check to make sure the flint is hitting the same area and that the bend is the same of the frizzen face.
I'm pretty new to flint lock nuance but having to work on them is bringing me up to speed on some of the associated problems.
Another thing I have discovered is the frizzen spring shape is important in keeping pressure against the flint as long as possible and still swinging it clear at the end. This makes the longest shower of sparks possible and directs them into the pan near the end of the cock stroke.
I find that the more my frizzen is used after the Kasnite treatment the more it sparks.
I doubt the treatment can be more than .005 deep so it will be interesting to see how long it lasts. MD

 

[M. De Land]

Good information Wick! I added some carbon so if all it needed was heat treating than the case depth should be irrelevant although my frizzen was already hard before I give it the kasnite treatment and it would not spark for beans.
I did not anneal it though so will pull it of and do so. It will be particularly brittle as the Kasnite treatment requires a water quench according to the instruction on the can. Mike

 

[LRB]

A brine quench is safer for the steel than water, and acually cools even faster and harder, but although I might do it myself, I hesitate to recommend either because of the risk of the part cracking. I'm pretty sure the Davis frizzens are 1095 which really needs no extra carbon, just a good hardening. MD, since you used the kasenit and water quenched, if your frizzen is also 1095, you may never notice when the Kasenit wears through. Hard as a term is relevant. If you tested with a file, it can lie. For a true file test, you need a new or fairly new file, and use the corner edge rather than the main teeth. Try it, and you will, or should, see a difference in the cutting.

 

[M. De Land]

Yes, have always used a file corner for my hardness testing with flat and V springs.
The Kasnite instructions specify clean cold water.
For my springs and most O-1 applications I use 1650 degree anti scale powder for hardening and quench in Brownell's Tough Quench which has proven very excellent for me.
I use the tool wrap for A-2 as it it will scale up in not protected inside it.
They weren't kidding when the said the anti scale powder was only good go 1650 degrees. That is a good bit more than you will need for carbon steel though. Mike

 

[LRB]

Tough Quench is good for 01, but a little slow for 1095. Parks #50 is best for hardening 1095, but heated canola oil is a close second.

 

[Sunny the Duck Hunter]

What in the world do you have to do to get this thing RED HOT? Also what am I lookin for when I use the edge of the file to test the hardness?

 

[LRB]

A Mapp gas torch or acetylene. A charcoal fire enhanced with a hair drier. A wood fire enhanced with forced air. Whatever you try, run a test piece of steel of about the same size to be sure of being able to get it red-orange hot. The file edge should not cut the hardened steel. It should just skip across as if the piece were glass. After temper, you should barely be able to make a scratch on the frizzen face, but with effort. If in question, try it out. It may be what you want at that point.

 

[Sunny the Duck Hunter]

Thanks Wick. I got it red hot with some charcoal and forced air. Dunked it directly into the canola oil at 125. Tempered it in the oven at 375 for an hour. Did all this twice, and when I tried to turn it dark blue with the torch, both times I couldn't seem to get the back of the striking surface blue without turning the front blue as well. I am sure you already know what happened when I put it back on the gun............ NUTHIN! Ha! Back to the drawing board............. Thank you guys for helpin me out with this. Less than 3 weeks till turkey season and I haven't shot any patterns with this gun yet.

 

[M. De Land]

I annealed mine the other day as well but what I did differently was put the frizzen face in my vice jaws in between two copper heat sinks and drew the lower frizzen to straw leaving the frizzen face from top to nearly the bottom with the temper I gave it after heat treating which I think was 400 F. The heat color stopped at the copper heat sink line at the bottom like it hit a wall. Sparks good now but about drove me nuts for a year and a half. Even sent it back to the manufacturer and it still wouldn't spark. I don't like drawing more than straw color on most of my parts so I stopped their.
I don't know of any way to heat the back of the frizzen without doing the same to the front.
There is no way I'm aware of to stop heat transfer in the thickness of a frizzen, front to back if that is what you mean. MD

 

[M. De Land]

One more thing I forgot to mention is the use of heat control paste for stopping heat migration. It is amazing how well it works. I use it when welding on new bolt handles mostly for modern guns.
But it might have application here if using a torch.
Also if you can make a mini forge with some fire brick you can make a propane torch work in most instances. I generally form and heat treat all my flat a V springs with a propane torch. MD

 

[rich pierce]

Test the hardness after the quench and before tempering. You just need to heat the pivot area to blue and let that run into the pan cover, not the back of the frizzen upright. There's no way to temper the back of the frizzen upright and not the face.

 

[MJMarkey]

I don't have any experience with Davis locks. But from what I understand Chambers locks are hardened through and through. In other words if the frizzen face gets too chewed up just grind it smoother and your good to go.

My suggestion is contact Davis locks and find out if their locks are hardened through and through and if so, you can grind the face smooth. A lot less work than what you're looking to do. and why dispose of a perfectly good frizzen.