Non toxic shot in smoothbore

[Ken Morrison]

Guys,
Is non toxic shot, other then steel, used in smooth bore guns? If so what is available?
Other then for water fowl would it be useful for turkey hunting to provide more down range energy?
Thanks for your help.

 

[Black Hand]

Bismuth is the only non-toxic that comes to mind that can go into the bore without a shot cup. Others exist, but all are expensive. As to down-range power, NOTHING has better performance that lead down-range.

 

[roundball]

Are you sure that's the case with Bismuth...every reference to it I've seen suggests using the same protective shot cups that are used for steel...I would love to use Bismuth in my smoothbores so if you can scrounge up a source indicating cups are NOT required, I'll give you my first born ! :grin:

Tungsten-Matrix articles advertise it as being exactly like lead, the articles say is to be treated, loaded, and used the same way as lead...can be used in old original guns, in smoothbores, etc...of course $60 for a two pound vial + shipping have kept me from ordering any...it comes up with Google pretty easy

 

[paulvallandigham]

Roundball: I have to agree with you. Bismuth needs to be protected with plastic shotcups. It is more brittle than other non-toxic shot, and the bottom, or back 3 rows of pellets have been known to shatter into dust on firing, using the shot in modern shotgun shells. I am glad you mentioned " Tungsten-matrix". I, too, intend to wait until that price comes down a LOT before I try some of the stuff.

 

[CZMark]

Bismuth shot is no longer generally available; the guy who owned the company (and the patent) died a while back and no one has purchased the company (or the patent), although it is for sale.

Tungsten Matrix and HeviShot's "Classic Doubles" are soft shot, but available only in loaded ammo.

Your best bet, although expensive, is here: http://www.ecotungsten.com/shots.html

 

[roundball]

I agree...ecotungston is replacing T/M and that website is where the $60 for a couple pounds price is listed...sure like to try it but it's too rich for my blood.
That's the same concern that might face all of us if the price of lead for balls & conicals keeps going up to the point where it becomes cost prohibitive for high volume shooting and/or somehow becomes restricted / banned in the near future.

 

[16gauge]

Bismuth needs to be protected with plastic shotcups. It is more brittle than other non-toxic shot, and the bottom, or back 3 rows of pellets have been known to shatter into dust on firing, using the shot in modern shotgun shells.

I'm curious to know if this is the result of current testing, or old info....it is my understanding that early bismuth shot was extremely brittle and would shatter even in modern shotgun shells; I'm told that the later stuff was alloyed/annealed with tin so as to reduce the problem. At any rate, the shot cups are NOT necessary to protect the bore from the shot, as is the case with steel or hevishot.
I have no intention of using plastic in my smoothbore; I'll try other methods (cotton balls, ect) to cushion the shot & protect it, if needs be. Right now, the gun seems to be patterning O.K.....on paper. We'll have to wait and see come fall for the real thing.
As far as other alternatives: I don't think that ecoshot and tungsten-matrix are exactly the same thing, but they do look darn close....there is also a new shot out that will be available late summer (only two sizes so far: T and 4 1/2) from bucks run/RSI called "Eshot". Supposedly you can use this in modern shotshells using traditional lead wads/powders/recipes. I'm told that it is going to run $190/10 lbs.
While I use modern shotguns and steel handloads for most of my duck hunting, it would be nice to have some other nontoxic alternative on hand for use in my older shotguns/muzzleloaders.

 

[CZMark]

Lead was at its highest price late last fall at about $1.80/pound. Its now down to less than $1.10/pound, which is still twice what it was 2 years ago, but it is down.

 

[roundball]

Well, the finished product price to the consumer seems to be on another plane :grin: ...my trap & skeet club just got it's quarterly 18 wheeler delivery of supplies and targets last week.

Last quarter a 25lb bag of shot cost us $39/bag.
This delivery it cost us $46/bag.

And those are with huge volume discounts from the club, buying pallets and pallets full of bags of 7.5/8/8.5/9 size shot at one time.

 

[CZMark]

I hope the current high prices are due to companies still using their stocks for which they paid $1.50+/pound and not a matter of them gouging us because they think we are used to paying high prices.

Try getting shot through Recob's--their prices are better than what you just paid. :thumbsup:

 

[chuck-ia]

I did not know you had to use a shotcup with bismuth, I read before to use it just as you would lead, would not harm the bore. I bought a 7 lb. container a few years ago for 90.00 and still have most of it. If I had to use a shotcup I would just use steel. I will continue to use the bismuth for hunting without a shotcup unless someone can prove to me it will damage the barrel. When comparing bismuth with lead I can squeeze a bb with a pliers and it will flatten out and maybe crumble a little or break in two as I squeeze it, but it will flatten out. I use this stuff very sparingly, should get a few more years with what I have left, and thats if I hunt a lot. flinch

 

[16gauge]

will continue to use the bismuth for hunting without a shotcup unless someone can prove to me it will damage the barrel.

I don't think that they are using the shot cup to prevent barrel damage from the shot, but to prevent shot damage from the barrel.

 

[roundball]

Try getting shot through Recob's--their prices are better than what you just paid.

Recob's ?????

 

[CZMark]

Google Recobs.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

recobstargetshop DOT com

 

[roundball]

Try getting shot through Recob's--their prices are better than what you just paid.

I bookmarked the site in case I might find something there in the future, thanks.
But unless I misread it, I didn't see any shot prices better than what we just got...remember, the prices I listed were delivered prices...his prices still have to have the cost of shipping that heavy lead added to it

 

[Joel/Calgary]

...it is my understanding that early bismuth shot was extremely brittle and would shatter even in modern shotgun shells; I'm told that the later stuff was alloyed/annealed with tin so as to reduce the problem.

I've come across somewhat sketchy info suggesting that the early, brittle Bismuth shot had ~5% tin, and the later had ~15% tin. This reduced the brittleness, but also reduced the density somewhat.

This seems reasonable, but I wish I could find more firm information.

Joel

 

[Capt. Jas.]

roundball,

I did not even check the prices of Recob's.
Our club, Brushy Mountain just got in a very large order of powder and shot and we paid the same as you per bag for magnum shot. I think it's the best we can do in the area.