Non-toxic Shot?

[Oudoceus]

Hey Everyone!
What kind of shot do you use for waterfowl and where do you get it?
Walter

 

[paulvallandigham]

There are several different kinds of Non-toxic shot now available. Unfortunately, not all are available as " reloading components", so you may have to Cannabalize modern cartridges to get the shot from them to use in a MLer. Niceshot is one; steel is another; Bismuth, is another; and several other brands. Go to Ballistic's Products website and see what they offer. The stuff is Very expensive, but the Niceshot is closest in performance to real lead shot. That allows you to work up patterns with loads using lead shot, and then fire a couple of loads of the expensive stuff to confirm the patterns, before going hunting.

When you consider the expense involved in waterfowling hunting, if you don't live on the water, the cost of this expensive shot is the least of the expenses involved. Happy Hunting. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Hey Everyone!
What kind of shot do you use for waterfowl and where do you get it?
Walter

Depends...if you're planning to use a large .12ga or .10ga, you'll have enough room to use the less expensive steel with the protective shot cup...or even the more expensive ITX shot from Ballistics Products.

If you're using a smaller .16ga/.20ga where bore size / space is limited, elimination of the shot cup allows a larger shot charge...and/or if you want to use shot in a bare bore like the settlers did, then Ecotungsten/Niceshot is the way to go as it is ballistically a direct lead substitute.

When it first came out I did my load development using the corresponding #6 size lead shot to save money as it performs the same, and found that Ecotungsten actually patterned more densely than hard #6s at 40 yards.

It’s ordered directly through their website...not from Ballistics Products...and over the past few years I've tried it in #4/#5/#6 sizes...patterned very well for me in all three of those sizes.

It’s expensive...but then you don't use a lot.

 

[Jason Lewis]

bismuth is the better shot in my opinion.

 

[roundball]

Better than what?
What tests?
What yardages?
What game killed with each?

 

[Jason Lewis]

it's alright guys i'll elaborate more on my post. i apologize for the shortness of my earlier post. i have a sick little guy who needed more attention at the time.

for the stats on the gun.

42" colerain 20ga flint with a mod jug choke.

i have shot and use copper plated lead #4's, bismuth #4's and ecotungsten #4's. the reason i have shot all of these is that while i prefer the lead shot best, when i hunt pheasants on some state property and for all waterfowl use i have to use a nontoxic shot of some sort. i refuse to put steel down the bore, i don't like steel in my 10ga BPS i see no reason to use it in a muzzleloader as i feel it is and always will be an inferior choice. that being said, the first shot i purchased was the ecotungsten, the shot size was the same because i really like how #4's pattern and drop birds dead without much damage to the bird. frankly the ecotungsten does pattern tighter, actually it patterns too tight for wing shooting out of my gun with a mod choke, the patterns i shot with it all produced a really dense center and ragged edges on the pattern not a nice even round pattern. this got better with load adjustment but still not the even distribution. this pattern would admittidly knock the hell out of a turkey which i'm sure is your experience roundball.

bismuth was my next choice for testing and is the one i like best in comparison. it patterns almost exactly the same as my lead load and kills the birds just as stone dead. it does drag a few more feathers into the meat but that's because it's not plated and smooth like the lead shot. i also didn't have to change my load any from the lead to the bismuth.

all of these shots are powerfull and i don't have any real way to quantify which is the more so. all of them nearly penetrate a 1/2" thinck plywood sheet at 40yrds.

i hope this helps clarify things.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Two posts in this discussion have been deleted.

We do not refer to other members as "arrogant jerks".

Any more of this and accounts will be deleted.

Any questions?

 

[tg]

To keep things in the realm of reality whaddya callem :idunno: reality is not always kind from what I have seen of this Earth :hmm:

 

[roundball]

"...the first shot i purchased was the ecotungsten, the shot size was the same because i really like how #4's pattern and drop birds dead without much damage to the bird. frankly the ecotungsten does pattern tighter, actually it patterns too tight for wing shooting out of my gun with a mod choke, the patterns i shot with it all produced a really dense center and ragged edges on the pattern not a nice even round pattern. this got better with load adjustment but still not the even distribution. this pattern would admittidly knock the hell out of a turkey which i'm sure is your experience roundball.

Thanks...I thought Bismuth was no longer available...that the company or production had been halted a couple years ago...do I have that wrong or is loose Bismuth readily available?
And does it require a protective shot cup?

Never been a big fan of steel either...changing the pellet size two sizes larger to keep the pellet weight up, drops the overall pellet count a lot...and...requires the use of the bulky protective shot cup which takes up a lot of bore space...a critical consideration using a medium size smoothbore like a .20ga.

As you know, there's no requirement for a protective shot cup with Ecotungsten and I'm glad to hear you found it to pattern tighter than lead as well...yes, odd as it may sound, when I discovered the increased pattern density I planned the non-toxic Ecotungsten #6s for turkey head shots even though lead magnum #6s have done well out to 35-40 yards with a Full Jug Choke, the extra Ecotungsten pellets are good insurance and since we only get 2 turkey tags here per season cost is not an issue.

And not having a large bore to hold a lot of large pellets for something like geese, I've had similar thoughts that Ecotungsten would work great on goose head shots if I get a chance to take any on the ground around a pond, from a blind like I was turkey hunting...they've really become a pest here and the daily limit is already up to ten...just need to find a place to try it.

 

[dbutch]

Bismuth shot available at.. Precision reloading Inc.

 

[Jason Lewis]

no problem round ball, glad i could help clear things up a bit. you do not need to use anykind of shot cup with bismuth. it seems to be the closest thing to being a direct lead substitute as far as loading and shooting goes. from what i can tell at least. if i was too shoot geese with bismuth for passing shots i would definatly go no smaller than #4 shot, and i'd want to be shooting around 1 1/4oz. if you get a good head/neck hit they'll drop like a stone, a body shot with just rock'em in the sky and take a second shot unless you break wing bones, but then you'll still have a wounded bird to bring down. tough birds to kill even with a 10ga.

 

[August West]

And not having a large bore to hold a lot of large pellets for something like geese, I've had similar thoughts that Ecotungsten would work great on goose head shots if I get a chance to take any on the ground around a pond, from a blind like I was turkey hunting...they've really become a pest here and the daily limit is already up to ten...just need to find a place to try it.

Been wanting to do the same thing, like you said we have tons of geese. Everytime I see one I wonder how it would taste deep fried. Chris

 

[Jason Lewis]

make goose nuggets then fryem. tasty.