Noob questions - 1864 Springfield

[Alamocity]

I finally got out to the range last week with two front stuffers. One is a Miroku springfield.

Now I have a couple questions for you learned muzzle loading gents.

Here's what happened -
First shot: 50yds offhand, 60 gr FFg, .570 rb with a lubed .010 patch. Hits the top of the bullseye, just barely above POA. Ok - great.

Remaining shots are off a bench rest. I start to get flyers and the third load becomes very difficult to ram home. I swab the bore with a patch and it helps a little - another few shots and I'm thinking I need a small mallet to seat the PRB.

Switch to RB without the patch. Nice loading, crappy shot placement.

Okay, so is this the experience of shooting a rifled muzzleloader? The barrel mikes out at .579, do I have an appropriate load? What am I missing?

Lastly, once at home, I filled the bore with warm water and swabbed it dry. I thought I had it dried, but checked it today and there is a lot of surface rust. Is there a trick to making sure the bore is dry?? I use CLP or Kroil in the bores of my milsurp rifles - is this an appropriate rust preventative (short term) for muzzle loaders?

Thanks for the feedback. I'm a little on the fence here, as this was a rocky start and not as much fun as I'd anticipated. No doubt, I just need to be more informed about shooting muzzle loaders.

Shooting the brown bess, was a ton of fun btw. nothing like a small explosion inches from your face!

Thanks! T

 

[paulvallandigham]

I suspect that your patch is Too Thin for that caliber ball, But you apparently didn't recover AND READ you spent patches. Without that information, its anybody's guess what is wrong.

Obviously,( to me, if not to you) you need to be using a better lube on those patches, and you probably need to be cleaning the barrel with a good Range Rod and jag- Not that metal ramrod, which is only good for loading( maybe?)- between each shot to get the best accuracy. The powder charge is probably sufficient, considering the POI you report on the RBs.

I have found, over the years, that as the caliber of a gun increases, you need a patch thickness that will carry more grease. Otherwise, you have to use an OP wad to act as a firewall, to protect the Patch from burning and tearing. The longer the barrel is on a rifle, the thicker the patch needs to be to carry enough grease to grease the entire barrel length, and have enough grease left in the patch to keep the patch from burning, regardless of caliber.

Most .58 caliber rifles benefit from using some kind of OP wad behind the PRB or minie ball. The Op wad seals the bore, keeping the gases from cutting and tearing the patch, and cutting or melting the lead ball. :thumbsup:

 

[59sharps]

CAN'T HELP W/ ROUND BALL INFO. BUT IT WILL LIKE A MINNE A LOT BETTER. THAT IS WHAT IT IS DESIGNED TO SHOOTS. FOR TARGET LOAD OUT TO 100YRDS. PLAY W/ LOADS 38 AND 48 OF 2FFG OR 3FFFG TO SEE WHAT IT LIKES BEST. MINNE NEEDS TO BE PURE LEAD OR AS CLOSE AS YOU CAN GET TO IT. SIZE .001 TO .002 UNDER BORE DIA.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Well, what you need to do is get some appropriately sized Minie Balls. If you're not acquainted with this bullet, it is a hollow base conical style bullet. The rifling in a rifle-musket is designed for this type of bullet. I don't know what the rate of twist or depth of the grooves are in the Miroku, but the originals and some of the reproductions are 1 in 72 twist with progressive depth rifling (.015" at the breech to .005" at the muzzle). There are only 3 lands and 3 grooves and they are much shallower than in a roundball gun. The hollow base expands into the rifling when the gun is fired and engage the rifling.

The 60 grain charge you are using is the standard charge for the Minie. Most Minies run between 480 and 505 grains for the Springfield pattern muskets. Heavier Minies are available. For 50 yard shooting, you can lower the charge to from 35 and 50 grains and get great results with the Minie along with powder savings and less fatigue from recoil.

The sights on these guns leave a lot to be desired, so it may take some time to find where to hold. They are designed to shoot high, so you may want to hold a fine sight when aiming. Once you get the proper bullet you'll be able to find out what sight picture you need.

Some of these guns do fairly well with a round ball. It's been a long time since I've shot RB in one, but I used to have a cheap Zouave years and years ago that liked round ball better than Minies. You say your barrel is .579 at the bore. The original muskets used a bullet .005 undersized (windage) which worked fine for combat at that time. For more accuracy you want to stay with .001" to .002" windage. So if you can get a mold that throws a .577 or .578 Minie, you're in good shape. If all you can get are Minies that are .005" under, you can still do a good job with them, but not as good as the tight ones. You may have to get a .580 mold and size them down. By the way, be sure to lube them. A dry Minie will hang up especially in a dirty bore faster than you can wink. A good lube (basically the same as the original military mix) is an 8 to 2 mix of beeswax and Crisco. Melt it in a flat pan. Set some Minies base down on another flat plate (with handles and lower them into the lube. Lift them out and set aside to dry. After the lube has set you can drive them through the sizer. This makes it easier to size plus it removes the excess lube which can be re-melted and used again. If you're at the range and just want to try some shots and don't have any of this lube handy, just squirt or rub some Alox, Maxi-Lube (if you can find any) or some other lube onto the sides. It's messy, but it works as a short term solution. Don't bother putting any lube into the base. It really doesn't help and it will just contaminate your powder. With a well lubed Minie, you should get quite a few shots between swabs. But for consistency I prefer between shots (if in a match) or at least every 4 or 5 shots. With the round ball I would swab after every shot.

As for drying your bore, just keep changing the patches and swabbing until the patch is absolutely dry. Sometimes when I'm nearly done, I go ahead and squirt some WD-40 on a patch and run it in a few times. That helps displace the remaining water, but won't stop the rust. After you do that, run a couple more dry patches through till they are dry. I've also run alcohol soaked patches through as well and they help dry the barrel.

There are several products out there that shooters on here like to use and I'm sure they'll clue you in. I myself have liked plain old 3 in 1 oil in my muzzleloaders for over 37 years. You don't have to gob it in there and you don't want to. A light coat is enough. Make sure that you wipe the bore, especially the breech real good before shooting (when using any lube) particularly if you store your gun standing up. Snap a cap before shooting to be sure the nipple orifice is clear. 3 in 1 is good for the lock as well and I always put just a tiny drop on the nipple threads when cleaning at the end of the day.

Remember that rifle-muskets have a low muzzle velocity (under 1000 fps), but still retain a lot of energy at a distance. They are a lot of fun, especially when shooting at steel gongs and make an excellent deer rifle (just remember the slow bullet). If you have any more question feel free to ask. I've probably forgotten something.

 

[jan buck]

use minie's in your musket for best results. again as stated above this has to be pure lead.
get a mold or two, Lee makes three for the .58 cal. they are inexpensive and easy to use.
start out around 40 grs of 3fff and work up to around 55 grs or so. 50 grs of 2ff can be good also. use rubbing alcohol every 5-7 shots to clean then snap a couple caps and load and shoot again. shoot for group. these guns can be very accurate. i have and 1861 replica[armisport] that i have been playing with, won't hold a candle to my two parker-hale enfields. have fun

 

[varsity07840]

If the musket does not have progressive depth rifling (.015 at the breech, .005 at the muzzle),
you'll probably have fouling problems. If you're
keen on PRBs I'd try a .562 ball which will allow the patch (maybe .015-.018)to compress. Use a lubed cushion wad over the powder. I use a .672 ball and .018 patch with the lubed wad in my rifled .69 (.687 bore) Springfield. It starts a little hard but then runs down easilly.

Duane

 

[Alamocity]

Thanks for all the responses. Great info here.

I'll try shooting some minies to see if that is more to my liking.

T