Northampton / Lehigh style guns

[three otters]

I was at Dixons gun fair on both Saturday and Sunday, on Saturday I was talking to a gentlemen about a "Lehigh" style rifle he had in his possesion. My question is that all of the Lehigh / Northamptons I've seen in either books or in real life (great collection of Moll's at the show) had a double radius or dual arcs on the underside of the stock and a gentle "roman nose" or curved upper profile. The gun he had was similer to a Rupp / Moll but had a fairly straight upper stock profile similar to a Dickert or Haines. :: Does any one know of a builder from the late 1700 who'se architecture / style was similar to the rifle I described above. Any help or information would be greatly appreciated I would like to research this style further. I would like to thank al of you in advance for you're taking the time to respond to my questions. :hatsoff:

 

[Geoff Jones]

Big K,

Have you read the article on Eric Kettenbergs website regarding Gumpf? His theory is that this maker has been attributed to other areas in past research but is actually Lehigh / Northhampton. I'm doing this by memory and have not read the article in awhile but remember the architecture as being what you describe. Not as pronounced an arch in the area of the triggerguard and a relatively straight comb.

I should have re-read the article before I posted...hope I'm remembering this correctly:

http://www.firelocks.com/page49.html

good luck...Geoff

 

[Stumpkiller]

Above is my cherry stocked pseudo-copy of a signed "J.Rupp" rifle. The lower arc has a distinct step under the grip rail. Moll put his break right at the spot where the rail meets the stock, as did Herman Rupp and J. Rupp the Younger. Some also have a "kink" about halfway down the lower curve. The earlier designs had a decidedly wide buttplate (> 2") and the wrist is wider than deep.

Same original, different interpretation with modern materials (Eric Kettenberg)

Realize that the Northampton/Lehigh style was produced over a period of 50 years or so. There were variations.

 

[jkingrph]

Am new to flintlock gain(acutally have not started only have one on order) Where is Dixon Gun Fair located, might try to attend next year?

 

[Maestro]

Eastern PA (Berks Co.)
Dixon Gunbuilders Fair

 

[LSU TIGER]

If you look at the early North Hampton / Lehigh guns, you'll see the "stepped wrist" in a more extreme form. By the time the Rupps were building the step was a simple arc. Get a copy of both volumes if "Rifles of Colonial America." That will be more help than I can give. I think Track has it.

 

[Stophel]

Ah, my absolute favorite types of guns. I am working on one right now, complete with red varnish. Will probably be the most elaborate gun I have done.

Without seeing the gun itself, I cannot comment on it. The famous 1787 Peter Neihardt gun does not have a step, and the comb is FAIRLY straight. Neihardt often did not use a stepped wrist, though his guns still are flat on the bottom up to the triggerguard, then turn round...the remnants of a step. There are other guns from this general area usually called "Lehigh" guns, though they may well be from Eastern Berks county. Illustrated by Shumway as "RCA #61" and also another likely by the same maker in Kindig's book, number 11. There is a third in this series of guns illustrated by Shumway in the June 1993 muzzleblasts. All very straight and "normal" in construction, but with carving details that definitely seemed to have been derived from styles used in the Lehigh area. There was a lot of weird things going on in Eastern Berks county, and styles got blended a lot, making vey unique products.

 

[Dale]

One has to remember that in 1752 Northampton county (where I was born and still live) comprised what was later to become Lehigh and even Berks county and all the land going North to the N.Y. state line. There were many "sub" schools in this area, ergo Bethlehem (where I live), Christen Springs (the first shop in this area) eight miles north of here out of which came many builders. Of these builders, many moved from town to town to set up shop. That is why all Northampton County rifles do not look alike, but they do have that wonderful butt curve. The simple design of these rifles makes them in my book, the most beautiful of all Pa. rifles.

 

[fatboy]

I 've taken a liking to this style of rifle had a chance to hold some of Allen Martin's work in my sweaty little eager hands and must say it was a true pleasure it had nice balance with the swamped Getz/Hoyt barrel realy have to think about one of these some time

 

[Flintandsteel]

I've just finished my first "scratch" built Lehigh rifle. It has the stepped wrist similar to Rupp rifles.
I just love it, it is absolutely the most graceful of styles.
Unfortunately, I have tried to post links to the photos on[url] Photobucket.com[/url], but the server will not accept them, saying the files are too big.
I don't know if this is appropriate, but you can see them on the American Longrifles board. Sorry guys!
:: :nono: ::

 

[Stumpkiller]

She's a honey, Smallpatch! You KNOW what I like!

A long and happy life together.

 

[Finnwolf]

She's beautiful, Smallpatch - what a talent you have. Mind telling us some of the details? What kind of finish on the metal parts? What did you use to stain and finish the wood? :redthumb:
Thanks, Finnwolf

 

[Flintandsteel]

Finnwolf,

OK, here goes
Stock - Sugar Maple plank that I got from Allen Martin
Buttplate - Brass of unknown origin, again from Allen Martin
Lock - L&R Dickert, ( kind of wishing I hadn't done that)
Barrel - Getz 44", .54cal, Oct/Round
Trigger - Single Fowler trigger (Davis?)
Remaining hardware - Brass from MLBS

Metal finish is also Allen Martin's recipe
Stock finish is LMF Honey Maple and Lancaster Maple topped with Permalyn sealer to seal the wood, then multiple coats of the same applied with a piece of the wife's panty hose till almost dry to keep the shine down.
She shoots as good as she looks.
First 5 rounds @ 25 yards touching but about 2" low. Haven't finished my load work up yet, so should do real well.
I am having problems with the lock though, am waiting for a replacement mainspring. First one was very soft, would only get off 3 or 4 rounds on a fresh flint, then have to knapp to get it to go off again. If this can be worked out, it should be a real winner.
Thanks for all the input guys.
Kind of long winded huh? :yakyak:

 

[Finnwolf]

Not long-winded at all, Smallpatch - very informative. I picked up some LMF Lancaster Maple in Dixon's shop this past weekend. I also have a bottle of something called "Magic Maple Stain" that Wayne Dunlap sent me when I bought my kit from him. Bottle says "made specially for curly maple" and that's all that's on the label except for POISON in big letters. I've been reading a lot about toxic recipes that turn green later and the more I hear, the more this little bottle scares me. Maybe I ought to use the LMF stain.
Someone else, Erastus, I think was looking for Allan Martin's recipe for metal finishing - don't know if it is public info or a craftsman's secret.
I hope your lock glitch works out and she's smooth as glass. If not, just send her to me every time the flint needs knapping - I'd do the knapping just to look down that barrel!
Finnwolf

 

Allen just posted what he does over on ALR. It read pretty simply...

Brown the barrel, but don't card it, leave it with the browning solution on it for 8-12 days.

Sand the barrel down to remove the browning, but leave the pits.

Apply cold blue and steel wool down to the patina grey.

That's it.