Not another french grey question

[Jarikeen]

After looking at the forums regarding french grey, and that it can be achieved with naval jelly - it begged the question, what is naval jelly? I did a quick net search which tends to suggest that naval jelly is phosphic acid rust remover in gel form (true?). If so, can one use phosphic acid rust treatment in liquid form (most common) to french grey a barrel.

I like the idea of french grey, but is it as effective as browning or bluing (assuming the same proper care methods).

How does french grey age ie does it stay the same or does it produce an aged pantina look down the track.

Would a french grey barrel on a kentucy look out of place with a coined finish lock and brass fixtures?

73's Peter

 

[rabbit03]

Hello from across the way Jarikeen

I noticed your post and wanted to tell you I have done a similar finish on my Hawken. I have not used naval jelly before so I can't speak for its effectiveness or finish.

The finish I put on was with the acid stain (aqua fortis) stain I have used on other rifle stocks in the past. Not sure why I did it but it is holding up extremely well and I like it. I call it French Gray but only because I am not really sure what to call it.

What happend was this, I did the entry pipe and butplate before going to the Adirondack Rain forest to hunt. It was pretty humid and we had our share of rain also while there. When I got back home I noticed that the butplate and the entry pipe were the only parts that did not have rust on them. So for me it was a no brainer to do the rest of the parts including the barrel.

The finish has been on now for about 4 months and there is no sign of any rust what so ever. I like it alot and might keep doing it on other rifle projects in the future.

The finish seems to be just like it was when I first did it and doesn't appear to be getting any darker or to have any more patina to it. The finish is very smooth also and there are no pits or craters in the metal.

good luck :thumbsup:

rabbit03

 

[DanChamberlain]

I have used naval jelly to remove the bluing on cap and ball revolvers, leaving them looking for the world like antique pistols well used. I've even had collectors chasing me around gun shows wondering if I was some idiot wanting to unload a priceless family heirloom even though I never offered it for sale. Needless to say, when they realize their mistake, they are angry. On the other hand, I doubt they'd have lost a moment's sleep if they'd have skinned the unknowing out of thousands of dollars of value.

The finish, particularly if you continue to use the weapon with black powder, it takes on a nice patina.

Dan

 

[Vairochana]

Gday mate,
Do you know where to get naval Jelly or AquaFortis in SEQld?

 

[Jarikeen]

Sorry, no I don't. Rust treatment (liquid phosphic acid) is pretty common though. I wonder if that will work?

 

[rabbit03]

You should be able to find them at Dixie I would think.

The Aqua fortis could be made if you had a mind to. Nitric, water and steel wool will work just fine.

Nitric can be found in lots of places, people who buy and sell gold will know where to get some or you can just buy some from TOTW or Dixie and be done with it.

rabbit03

 

[Bearbait2]

Mr. Widow's Son,
If you happen to have a marina or ship yard in your area, should be able to obtain Naval Jelly from them.
Best Wishes

 

Naval jelly can be found in any large hardware store.

 

[renovato]

Naval jelly is easy to find. I bought some at Lowe's a couple weeks ago. I used it to pull some rust off a polished barrel. It frosted the finish in minutes. The grey that it produces is a product of fine etching and is aesthetic only. It's not a true finish like browning or bluing, so I doubt it'll be as durable. On the other hand, the fine etching will probably hold oil very well, so it might be quite rust proof. I've never tried it, but I do a lot of jewelling on bolts and the fine texture holds lube well and prevents rust. Just a thought.

 

[Zonie]

It may be a bit harder to find in Australia. :rotf:

I would think the liquid phosphic acid would work as it is the prime ingredient in Naval Jelly.

zonie

 

[Billhuntz]

i was in a Wal Mart (not an Australian Wal Mart) and they have a version of rust remover in the automotive section. It is not called Naval jelly but has phosphoric acid as the active ingredient.

So what's in a name??? :hmm:

 

[rich pierce]

it'll work

 

[Jarikeen]

So you wouldn't get some kind a byproduct material produced from the reaction of phosphic acid and steel, other than eching?

I get the impression that the rust treatment solution generally converts the rust as apposed to removing the rust - but then we are taking about rust and not bare steel.

What then was the finish given to the likes of the brown bess and similiar?

 

[renovato]

Phosphoric acid is pretty mild for an acid. It's the stuff they put in Coke to give it tartness. It breaks up and dissolves rust so you can remove it. It does tend to etch steel, but lightly and evenly. Unfortunately it does it rather quickly too, at least on highly polished steel, as I found out when I used it on the hinge area of a break action barrel that I had already polished.

 

Gday mate,
Do you know where to get naval Jelly or AquaFortis in SEQld?

As already stated, aqua fortis is nitric acid. Very dificult to obtain here since 911, unless you have contacts.

Naval jelly is a jelled form of muric acid, the liquid form is often called brick acid(used to clean brick). It will eat rust or paint away rapidly and if not neutralized within minutes a new layer of surface rust will quickly form.

You should be able to get the brick acid at almost any paint or hardware store, even in OZ.

 

[rich pierce]

Mebbe in some parts naval jelly is jelled muriatic acid but in most parts, naval jelly is phosphoric acid. The gel is important because it holds the acid in place, so you don't get drips, runs, errors.

If you want a mottled gray, not a uniform gray, paint a degreased steel finish with mustard and leave it overnight. next day scrub it off. It's the vinegar- the mustard just holds it in place.

 

aqua fortis is nitric acid

Well the AF used then and now is actually ferric nitrate (nitric acid "killed" with iron) or a mix of ferric nitrate and ferric chloride (nitric acid + muriatic (aka hydrochloric) "killed" with iron).
It's currently commercially available as Wahkon Bay AF made and sold by Mike Lea either directly or through some vendors such as Log Cabin Sports shop.

Along with phosphoric acid or naval jelly, vinegar/mustard, etc. you can get that grey/blue "French grey" finish by applying cold blue and then soaking in household bleach for about five - ten minutes. Scrub off the crud and if it's what you want it to look like (if not you can re-do) neutralize by washing thoroughly with boiling water and baking soda. Rinse well with plain boiling water and then oil......

 

[wulf]

My my my this is so far down the list i doubt
if you will ever read this...When we engrave a piece and are satisfyed we then use instant Blue.
after the perscribed time we lightly sand or
green pad off the surface leaving the dark in
scribed lines and a French Gray on the sur-
face. I have used the jelly to remove the bluing
but it did such a good job that it couldn't have
been passed for period wear...

 

[jasontn]

i used naval jelly today on my traditions crockett worked very well it gave a good overall finish my gun had the highly polished blue barrel it also stripped off the color case finish on the lock as well i washed the barrel with baking soda after wiping it down this stuff works fast and very well in my opinion

 

[Jarikeen]

I would be interested in how the finish holds up.

Reading the Ferropro Rust Converter with 30% Phosphic acid instructions - it says: will convert a thin, firm layer of rust into a protective phoshate coating which, on drying, becomes sealed with a plastic film - an ideal base for subsequent painting.

I still wonder if the acid converts some of the steel (other than rust) to a very fine layer of something, other than just eching.

I will try it on a steel nail and see how it 'wears' outside.