Not too happy with Brown Bess purchase, best way to fix?

[csaduck]

SEND IT BACK !!! And require them to send you a postage paid label. If they do not want to cooperate, Burn them on social media. Post these photo's on every social site you are on, and join several gun owners site, post it on Reddit in R/Blackpowder.
I think they stuck you with an old factory 2nd laying around and wanted to fill the order for a shot of cash during this Chinese Virus. IMO

 

[VA Guy]

I think everyone has about sold me on sending it back.

Regardless, I am still bothered by the prospect of getting a Bess with the "correct" stock... before I make a final decision, can anyone tell me who could build a stock for me with the "correct" dimensions using my parts? Or is this just not as easy as it sounds?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Finding the replacement stock is the easy part.

Well, if you do decide to replace the stock, you might check out Dunlap Woodcrafts. They offer a replacement stock for the Pedersoli Brown Besses, out of either black walnut or English walnut. Two versions too— an exact replacement for the Pedersoli or one with greater drop in the buttstock.
I don’t have an interest in Dunlap, but have been happy with the stocks I’ve received from them in the past.

Finding the person to put your parts in the stock is a bit more difficult. There will be the cost and the time for it to be built is a consideration.

Ask at Dunlap for some recommendations.

 

[Dave Marsh]

So for arguments sake lets say with shipping, taxes and the gun you have $1200 in to it. A walnut Dunlap stock is $350 that has to be shipped to the builder of your choice and you will have to ship the parts to the builder. Then the builder needs to make a living and lets say $600 dollars for him (very very very conservative) and then it needs to be shipped back after a considerable amount of time as most good builders have a long wait list. So now you will have $2200 ++ into it and you still have a Pedersoli. A Brown Bess kit from Track of the Wolf which they say is cast from original parts including the stock is close to $1200. I'd find a builder and have the kit sent to him and have a well built in the US custom Bess. Good luck.

Dave

 

[Rifleman1776]

Send it back. Yes, demand a return label. Send a letter (strongly worded but polite) along with the gun. However, methinks a factory made ml gun, these days, should be expected to be something like that BB. Inletting is very sorry.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

So for arguments sake lets say with shipping, taxes and the gun you have $1200 in to it. A walnut Dunlap stock is $350 that has to be shipped to the builder of your choice and you will have to ship the parts to the builder. Then the builder needs to make a living and lets say $600 dollars for him (very very very conservative) and then it needs to be shipped back after a considerable amount of time as most good builders have a long wait list. So now you will have $2200 ++ into it and you still have a Pedersoli. A Brown Bess kit from Track of the Wolf which they say is cast from original parts including the stock is close to $1200. I'd find a builder and have the kit sent to him and have a well built in the US custom Bess. Good luck.

Dave

Spot on, after spending all that [extra] money to fix it (plus the time delay), you will still end up with a $1200 Pedersoli.
I will join the chorus - send it back, and demand a paid return label.

 

[S.Kenton]

Send it back!!! Contact vendor and explain your dissatisfaction as the item is not acceptable. Demand a return label. You should not be responsible for any return shipping.
If you keep it, every time you look at it it might upset you.

That’s what I’d do, then I would put an ad inthe for sale section “in search of “ .... see what turns up. Chances are you’ll have many options to choose from.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

RETURN IT.

You PAID for a warranty, USE it.

Tell the vendor what the problem was, and let the vendor know that the replacement will be inspected, and that you expect to return it for free if the next one is as FUBAR as this one.

No, you're right, the next might be screwed up, but that's true for any and every mail order return, no matter what the product.

LD

 

[dave_person]

Hi VA Guy,
If you view the thread I provided, you will see that you cannot make a really historically correct musket from a Pedersoli. The butt plate is 3/8" too short for the right architecture and that difference changes a great deal. Second, no pattern 1769 Brown Bess (the pattern that Pedersoli copies more or less) was ever marked "Grice 1762" on the lock. By the time of their issue British ordnance stopped having the contractor's name and lock manufacture date marked on the locks. The locks were marked "TOWER" or "DUBLIN CASTLE". To obtain an accurate copy of any Brown Bess pattern you have to build it from correct parts or have someone do that for you. Building a good Bess is not that hard because there are some good suppliers of pre-carved stocks and historically correct parts are available TOW and The Rifle Shoppe depending on the pattern. Also Goldstein and Mowbray's book "Brown Bess" is a fantastic pictorial history of the patterns and indispensable when building one.

dave

 

[Tangosierra]

Well, Sir, G*d didn't make this piece of cr- sorry, less than perfect musket, but one of His children, 'Giuseppe Joe' did, and had a hard time getting bits to line up while he did it. It is a dead cert for a kit gun I once saw that looked like it had been assembled by Stevie Wonder. I know that I had been the recipient of this thing the mail van would not have yet disappeared out of sight before it would have been back on it. It's a monstrous fiasco of a gun from THE present-day builder of such things and is a disgrace to the name of Davide Pedersoli'

They need telling.

I have 2 Pedersoli guns and workman ship is excellent. Almost flawless. A shame they would ship something like that. Refund!!

 

[Davey Boy]

If you paid by credit card, you should get your money back after filing the claim.

If the USPS was used in any way and you are defrauded, you can report it. That makes it a really big deal.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Agree with others. No excuse for that and you don't have to accept it.

 

[flintlock75]

sorry to hear about the issues. I have several Pedersoli guns including a Bess, love it all have fine fit and Finnish. If you are wanting a new stock, Atlanta cutlery has some original stocks for Brown Besses, check them out it might save you significantly.

The Brown Bess has been a grail gun for me for a while now. I looked at the various kits out there, looked at the used market, looked at the IMA offerings, I basically looked at everything that cost less than a descent used car. I read very good reviews about the Pedersoli Bess and was convinced enough to drop more than I ever thought I would on a smooth bore firearm.

I was willing to live with the "known issues" you get with a Pedersoli repro like the incorrect shape of the stock at the butt plate because according to my research, your only other option for a “correct” gun requires purchasing an original (used car money for something shootable.) However, when I received my Bess I couldn't help but feel let down. It seriously looks like it was built by apprentices - scratch that, interns. On a Friday afternoon, at 4:30. When the entire quality department was on vacation. I will say that I was surprised as not only does my gun not match the photos and reviews that I've seen, the differences in quality between my pedersoli Enfield and this gun are staggering. The Enfield isn’t perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but at least it looks like some care was taken in its manufacture.

Nothing is the end of the world here, but here are the items that irritate me that I really want fixed:

• Trigger pin is visible and drilled partially outside of the lock mortise

View attachment 62395

• - Inletting around sideplate, trigger guard and ramrod pipes is pretty crappy. Too much wood taken out in some places, inlet parts are flush in some spots and proud in others. Spots that catch the hand are especially irritating.

View attachment 62396
View attachment 62397
View attachment 62398

Just to indicate why I'm griping about quality, the below items are easily fixed but in my mind a $1,000 + gun shouldn't leave the factory looking like this:

• Lock and lock mortise full of wood/brass/steel shavings
• Pins proud and not centered (see above photo of entry pipe for example)
• Wood filler/stain goo gobbed on pin blowouts and not cleaned up

View attachment 62399
View attachment 62400


I guess my questions are:

1a. Is this indicative of Pedersoli quality? Personally, this is the last Pedersoli I'll buy without laying hands upon it before purchase and I have about $6,000 worth of pent up desire in Pedersoli offerings.
1b. Are my expectations out of line and I'm simply "getting what I paid for"?
2. What are the chances of me fixing the inletting without making it worse? I've fixed inletting before - on door hardware that receives copious amounts of paint, not something with visible grain. Obviously a little filing/sanding will be easy to fix, but I'm thinking I might have to live with the gaps.
3. Would it be possible to buy an English walnut stock blank and send it along with my lock and barrel to a talented gunsmith and end up with a brand new Bess with the correct stock? <--- Seriously interested in this option, costs be damned.

If having a new stock made is an option, I guess I could take a stab at a DIY fix and see if I could live with the end result, and if not go to plan B of having a new stock made.

Thoughts?

 

[VA Guy]

Hi VA Guy,
If you view the thread I provided, you will see that you cannot make a really historically correct musket from a Pedersoli. The butt plate is 3/8" too short for the right architecture and that difference changes a great deal. Second, no pattern 1769 Brown Bess (the pattern that Pedersoli copies more or less) was ever marked "Grice 1762" on the lock. By the time of their issue British ordnance stopped having the contractor's name and lock manufacture date marked on the locks. The locks were marked "TOWER" or "DUBLIN CASTLE". To obtain an accurate copy of any Brown Bess pattern you have to build it from correct parts or have someone do that for you. Building a good Bess is not that hard because there are some good suppliers of pre-carved stocks and historically correct parts are available TOW and The Rifle Shoppe depending on the pattern. Also Goldstein and Mowbray's book "Brown Bess" is a fantastic pictorial history of the patterns and indispensable when building one.

dave

Hi Dave,

Yes, I spent quite a bit of time reading your thread as well as the FAQs when I was doing my research and I must say it was invaluable.

This information is why I acknowledged that the Pedersoli copy would never be "right" and when I inquired about building a stock for it I would be doing so in an effort to have a "correct' short land pattern gun, and not simply recreating the incorrect stock... between having the stock done and getting the lock engraving fixed this would obviously cost a LOT of money but would seemingly be the only way to have a first world made second model. Treating the lock and barrel as a parts kit, if you will.

That being said, it does seem like a bit of an adventure without a clear path to what I want, so I think I will send this one back.

IF the vendor is willing to stand behind what they sell and can promise me a replacement that isn't a pile of hot garbage, I will consider that in exchange.

If the vendor has nothing better to offer, I will take a refund and re visit this altogether. I'll probably just put this toward the Kibler Colonial kit I planned on purchasing next anyway and practice my building skills so I can build TOTW's long land pattern kit in the future.

Or maybe I'll take another look at the Indian guns.

Back to grail gun status with the Bess
It will make owning a worthy example that much better!

 

[TFoley]

sorry to hear about the issues. I have several Pedersoli guns including a Bess, love it all have fine fit and Finnish. If you are wanting a new stock, Atlanta cutlery has some original stocks for Brown Besses, check them out it might save you significantly.

Last time I was there, Pedersoli were in Gardone Val Trompia, not Finland. Are you confusing them with SAKO or Tikka?

 

[Britsmoothy]

I am afraid the Chinese Communist virus is probably responsible for the quality of merchandise purchased. The factories of Gardone Val Trompia in Italy is in northern Italy where the Chinese Communist sent infestations to the Gardone Rivieria, exposing all northern Italy.. Some of the factory workers are probably not with us any more.
My opinion, I expect the same from other manufactures because of the temporary and in experienced help that they were forced to hire, United States included.

I thought this gun was made in 2019 and Italy suffered from the virus in 2020, no?

 

[Columbus]

I'll take a WAG here and ask if you bought this from Cabela's?

 

[VA Guy]

I thought this gun was made in 2019 and Italy suffered from the virus in 2020, no?

The proof shows 2019, but I wonder if it could have played a part? Rejected pieces that were warehoused for rework all of a sudden became "good enough" due to extreme demand and inexperienced workers?

I'll take a WAG here and ask if you bought this from Cabela's?

Negative. I won't "out" them just yet, but I'll say that the vendor deals in muzzleloading exclusively, and has a name that might inspire one to wish he or she were "in the land of cotton"

 

[sawyer04]

I thought this gun was made in 2019 and Italy suffered from the virus in 2020, no?

If memory serves me right the Chinese Communist virus was detected in late 2019, As far as the exact date of manufacture it only states 2019, early, late, don't know. Is there a way to figure that out? I surmised that this could be a problem. Notice I didn't state assume. I purchased a Uberti revolver in February of 2020 and finally received it in August of same year. Couldn't figure why it was dated 2019. It was really a disappointment out of the box. Nothing that couldn't be corrected, but Quality control must have been nonexistent.
Only rumor here, but I delayed purchasing a new vehicle in 2020, and this year also here in the states because of quality control and skill set of temporary laborer's, not that I have a thing against temporary laborers, but investing 50 grand in a new work vehicle requires some consideration.

 

[Britsmoothy]

If memory serves me right the Chinese Communist virus was detected in late 2019, As far as the exact date of manufacture it only states 2019, early, late, don't know. Is there a way to figure that out? I surmised that this could be a problem. Notice I didn't state assume. I purchased a Uberti revolver in February of 2020 and finally received it in August of same year. Couldn't figure why it was dated 2019. It was really a disappointment out of the box. Nothing that couldn't be corrected, but Quality control must have been nonexistent.
Only rumor here, but I delayed purchasing a new vehicle in 2020, and this year also here in the states because of quality control and skill set of temporary laborer's, not that I have a thing against temporary laborers, but investing 50 grand in a new work vehicle requires some consideration.

I think Italy got seriously I'll in the spring of 2020.
Before this Bess was made....I think.