NSW Chiefs Grade gun

[Bountyhunter]

Has anyone put one of the North Star West Chiefs Grade Guns together? Is there any traps or tricks that a guy should be looking out for or are they pretty straight forward?

If you have experience with one, what is your opinion of it?

I was at a Living History event this past week and the guns there were predominately NSW. In fact, of the dozen camps/lodges set up for the event, there was only one gun that was not a NSW, and the enactors represented 3 states. There was a lot of talk there about the Chiefs Grade gun, and several of the guys had said that they had just ordered them or were going to.

Matt says in his advertizing that the Chiefs Grade gun was the only one that was originally offered in a left hand version, and I have my eye on that piece of information.

I appreciate any comments or advice that you might have on this gun.

Bill

 

[Le Grand]

Bill, Go for that Chief's Grade. I prefer the Northwest Gun but that's just me. If you are not the real kit builder, go for the in-the-white version. To build the kits you do need a pretty good shop, with drill press, taps & dies, and similar tools. If those tools are available, the kit shouldn't be any real trouble. Matt does send out a very good set of instructions with those kits. With the in-the-white all the assembly is done but you get to do the final sanding and finishing of both wood and metal. That info is in Matt's catalog and on his web site. Great guns! Le Grand

 

[Bountyhunter]

My dilema is that most of my good tools are in storage....I can get to the drill press, and taps and dies, but my lathe and mill are not handy if I was going to need that. I am capable of filing flat and square, so, I can do it really by hand if need be. You know, it isnt a problem if you know what to expect. I just dont like surprises. And, I dont want to have to go buy several hundred bucks worth of special tools to do some small job. I probably already have all that stuff if I can locate it. I'm leaning towards the Chiefs gun simply because of the left handed lock being historically correct according to Matt. Of all the books I have, I do not have one that shows a chiefs gun or a left handed lock that I can recall, but with things being as they are, I dont think he would advertize that unless he could prove it. I appreciate the comment, has anyone else put one together?

B

 

[Rebel]

He doesn't actually say they were historically correct, only that they are the only ones making one with a left hand lock. IIRC We just discused this recently.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I've never seen a original trade gun with a left handed lock. I'd really interested to see one, or some documentation on the production of left handed guns for the indian trade.

 

[Le Grand]

Bill, The barrel comes breeched so you shouldn't be needing a lathe. And the taps are mainly for screw holes, such as in the lock plate. It sounds like you should go for the kit. Le Grand

 

[Bountyhunter]

Mike

I havent been up to Chadron yet, but its going to happen soon. I have every book that I could find on the NW Gun. That is why I said what I did. I figure that I have two basic choices. Either build a gun that is as close to being correct as I can or say screw it and just go upgrade my pilots license, ya know? That is why I am shooting the Santa Fe Hawken, as it was the closest thing to being correct at the time, other than dropping a lot of $$ for parts from the Hawken Shop when they were in St. Louis. Actually, I drove to SL and talked with those guys before choosing the Santa Fe.

In the past 40 some years, I havent passed up any opportunities that I Know of to go to any museums or displays of firearms. I have yet to see an original left handed flintlock of any sort, or percussion gun either. That doesnt mean that there wasnt one somewhere, but I havent seen one. If there really wasnt, then I might just as well get the NW gun that I wanted anyway and build it left handed and play with it until I tire of it and then sell it and make something else.

Bill

 

[rusty]

I have a NSW trade gun that i got fromm Matt.I am very pleased with it and the service that Matt gave me was secound to none..regards ..rusty

 

[Okwaho]

I've never seen a original trade gun with a left handed lock. I'd really interested to see one, or some documentation on the production of left handed guns for the indian trade.

I haven't seen any documentation on left handed trade guns of any type let alone a "Chief's grade?}T.M. Hamilton illustrates an archaelogical left handed Fusil fin,"Colonial Frontier Guns",1980 PP.60-61 recovered in Louisiana but that isn't to say that the original owner was Indian.To the contrary I suspect that the gun which appears to be well above average for a trade gun was originally owned by a Frenchman with secondary ownership by an Indian.Indeed Hamilton stated that so far as he knew [as of 1980] this gun is the only left handed 18th century gun to be recovered archealogically.I don't know if anyone other than North Star West offers a left handed trade gun and they may well be the only ones who do.I just question any left handed Indian trade guns and I really think this gun was probably brought over by a Frenchman and that it wound up in an Indian grave with a subsequent deceased Indian owner.

Wallace Gusler in a recent "Muzzle Blasts" article illustrates two probable North Carolina rifles recovered from grave sites in Mississippi and maybe Alabama.Doubtless these two guns were interred with secondary owners as I suspect was also the case with the left handed Fusil fin in Louisiana illustrated by Hamilton.
Tom Patton

 

[Mike Brooks]

If you want a left handed trade gun I'm all for it. Doesn't bother me one way or the other, you're paying for it so you should have it the way you want. I'd just be interested in the documentation or the physical evidence of a left handed gun intended for the indian trade just from an educational point of view. Just never seen or heard of an original is all, and if there's one out there I'd like to know about it. :thumbsup:

 

[Bountyhunter]

I agree totally.

 

[mike alexandre]

Couple of things here. Presumably you are left handed, if so get yourself a gun you can use as well as re enact with. This is the sort of scores (85) Matts guns are calpable of, (this is an officers fusil) so they are not just for show. Also the after sales service is second to none and I'm several thousand miles from Montana. :thumbsup:

 

[rabjr]

I'd only echo what others are saying about Matt and his guns. My Early English is just plain fun at the range. :thumbsup:

 

[R. Miller]

I built one a couple years ago. am real happy with it. Drill press and dies will get you there. inletting chisels o course. this was my first smoothbore am real pleased with the accuracy. If i can give you more info pm me...stickwalker :thumbsup:

 

[threepdr]

As others have said a drill press and dies and simple tools are all you need. I built one of their Early English Guns and was very pleased with it. A buddy of mine built the Chiefs Gun, which I understand is a little later era.

The museum at Horseshoe Bend Battlefield in Alabama has a trade gun dating to the War of 1812 period that is a spitting image of the NSW Chief's Gun, or should I say the NSW gun is a spitting image of this original!

 

[Bountyhunter]

I talked to Matt and he claims that Curly copied the Chiefs gun that they have directly off of an original. I also asked for info on the originals being available left handed and he couldnt answer that. He said that was part of the website when he got it. I'm not asking these questions to question Matt, he is a real nice guy and I think his guns are a good as any. I am just curious about the history, and others experiences with them. I am left eyed and so shoot left handed. Otherwise, I am right handed. I shoot a pistol equally well with which ever one is handy at the time. In the shop, I use one hand until it gets tired and then shift to the other one, so if it werent for the lack of an eye......I could or would shoot either side. But, I just think that putting the lock on the other side is a rational solution to having the powder flash in your face.

I appreciat you alls comments.

Bill

 

[Mike Brooks]

I like the NSW Chief's gun. I think it's probably a faithfull copy of the original.
I've never owned one or built one, but if I was intertested in a gun of that time period I think it would be a good choice. :thumbsup:

 

[Le Grand]

Bountyhunter, Whether history can supply you with an actually left-handed Chief's Grade or not is something we can only guess about, at this time. However, the possibility of such a piece is certainly there. After all, they did make double barreled shotguns in those days. That means left-handed locks were available. At the same time, we must believe that anything left-handed would have been made specifically for a particular individual. If the original Chief's Grade guns were made like the Northwest Guns, made without a particular individual in mind, I'd have to guess that they were all made right-handed. That certainly shouldn't stop you from getting your left-handed gun. Realizing that one could have been made should be enough to make you go for it. Le Grand

 

I have yet to see an original left handed flintlock of any sort, or percussion gun either. That doesnt mean that there wasnt one somewhere, but I havent seen one.

Well now you can say you have! :grin:
Picture was posted on TMA by member/owner Feltwad - hopefully he won't mind (I trimmed to size).........it's a half stock fowler converted from flint to percussion - maker is Jeremiah Patrick of Liverpool

for a larger view click Here

 

[Okwaho]

I have yet to see an original left handed flintlock of any sort, or percussion gun either. That doesnt mean that there wasnt one somewhere, but I havent seen one.

Well now you can say you have! :grin:
Picture was posted on TMA by member/owner Feltwad - hopefully he won't mind (I trimmed to size).........it's a half stock fowler converted from flint to percussion - maker is Jeremiah Patrick of Liverpool

for a larger view click Here

Kindig illustrated two{Nos.31,244} both of which are flintlock and relief carved as well as a double barrel side by side flintlock relief carved rifle{No.109}and there are several wender{swivel breech}rifles known.including the one associated with Timothy Murphy of Saratoga fame.As to percussion I have seen a few and once owned a half stock iron mounted Southern rifle which was left handed.Left handed guns both flint and percussion are relatively rare but are known.The earliest left handed gun that I have been able to locate so far is a snaphaunce all metal Scottish pistol Ca. 1620 illustrated by Lenk{Pl.3}and of course there is the 18th century archaelogically recovered left handed Fusil fin shown in Hamilton{1980} and hereinabove cited by me.
Tom Patton