Odd sized nipple, remove or file to fit

[pjogrinc]

Have an old 41 cal target rifle with orginal sights that shoots great.

Only problem is that the nipple is to large diammeter for a #11 cap. I have to rock and then force cap down on the nipple or push it down on a beveled Dremal bit to spread open the bottom so I can then force it down on the nipple.

I have tried to remove the nipple using penetrating oil, didn't work. Tried using Kroil, didn't work. Let the barrel set for 24 hours, rap with wood mallet and reapply oil The only thing I've managed to do is destroy 3 nipple wrenches. Can not get a wrench in there do to clearance issues.

Need recommendations as to removal or filing the diammeter down to accept # 11 caps.

 

[smokehouseman]

If there's a way you can get a grip on the nipple with a nipple wrench that is chucked into a drill press; apply pressure and then turn the chuck by hand....DO NOT TRY TO REMOVE THE NIPPLE BY THROWING THE POWER SWITCH ON. I've been able to remove items like this when all else has failed. The trick is being able to grip that nipple with whatever you have in the chuck. You may be able to deform the nipple in such a way you can get a slotted screw driver head into it. Hope this makes sense and good luck.

 

[Many Klatch]

Worse comes to worse, I guess I'd file it flat, drill it out and use a seized bolt kit to pull what is left of the nipple, then I'd see what shape the threads are in. If they are really bad I'd drill and tap the threads to something commonly available.

Many Klatch

 

[mykeal]

Many K. said it.

 

[jdstrang]

Wouldn't it be just a lot easier, simpler and cheaper go get a tin of MUSKET caps that will fit the existing nipple? :surrender:

 

[tg]

I might try and work the nipple down to fit the caps with a small file or Dremel tip, unless there is evidence of a lot of corrosion where the threads meet the drum or bolster, then a re-tap might be a beter choice so you know the connection is solid.

 

[longcruise]

Also, consider that sometimes you can get things loose by turning them tighter first and then backing them out. you could also take a nipple wrench that fits and heat it up, harden it and then temper in your oven to get a tougher wrench.

I think it is wise to remove it so you can inspect for the condition of the threads, etc. Would not be good if it came out under pressure! :shocked2:

 

[shooter575]

In the past there were many more sizes of caps made.My guess is your cone is for a # 13 cap or biger. The 13's were still being made in the 50-60's. Good luck finding them now.
You will need to remove the cone at some point anyway a couple ideas.
You need a better wrench.If the square part of the cone is 1/4"I have had good luck using a 1/4" drive socket flipped upside down and a allen wrench.The socket cab be ground a bit for clearance.A 4 way faucet wrench has 4 square holes that may work also.It has a 1/4 " and one size smaller also.
Once you get something to fit I would put some heat to it,drive on the wrench then turn.
Another thing I have seen is a new product made by "Loctight" It is a spray can that will freeze the part and do the same thing as heat ie the parts expand at different rates and break the bond.

Good luck

 

[pjogrinc]

The metal parts date back to the 1860 - 1880 period from what I've been told by a couple of local smokepole enthusiasts. Stock is later early 1900 style target.

Ran in to 'mountain man' member of one of the local clubs and his recomendations was to make a nipple wrench out of the largest diameter round stock that would fit over the nipple and still rotate inside of the shield. Most store bought ones are just not strong enough. Drill and cut out the slot for the nipple. Then get a large container, just over barrel and nipple size, put the tang end in and fill container with the Kriol and let it sit for a week, removing every day to 'rap with authority' with a wooden mallet and then put back in the Kroil bath. After a week try the home made nipple wrench. He says, he has never had to leave one in the bath for over a month.

I will try all of your suggestions, short of destroying the nipple. Who know what thread pitch it might end up being, let alone trying to find a replacement.

Thanks for your help.

 

[roundball]

I'd be worried about corrosion in the condition its in...and frankly, now after all the attempts to break it loose I'd be worried it might be weakened to a point of letting go under the pressure of shooting.

Speaking only for me, if I had that situation laying on my carpeted workbench, I'd no longer trust it and would do as suggested above...drill it out and retap it to a modern 1/4x28 for example, install a 'Hotshot' nipple, and use CCI#11 magnum caps.

If its a drum type design, possibly the whole drum could be removed & replaced.

 

[docjim]

I recently bought an original 58 Enfield to restore from Atlanta Cutlery. The ones sold AS IS AS FOUND.. The nipple was frozen to the point I thought I would never get it out in one piece and resigned myself to drill & tap, BUT luckily I took some time to build up the courage & will to risk severe damage to an original 150 year old rifle. Over the course of a few days I alternately heated the breech w/ a propane torch and applied penetrating oil. I also occasionally placed the wrench over the nipple and gave it a few taps. My patience paid off because suddenly the nipple turned a bit. I am sure the alternating heating & cooling did the most to free up the joint between nipple & breech while applying the oil surely helped some.
But mostly it was Not Trying to Rush It... I know I would have sheared it right off if I tried to get it done the first day.
Also I ask if the nipple has a 4 or 2 sided shape to it. I have seen what I thought were Musket nipples on 19th century target rifles due to shape, but slighlty smaller cap cone. I am sure this is what you have... IF it is 4 sided you might check to see if a musket nipple wrench fits the square. This will give you more torque and spread the force to avoid rounding the shoulder... DOC

 

[SimonG]

I have stood frozen breech plugs and nipples in a can of Kerosene for a week sometimes 2 weeks and they have budged for me after that.

sometimes the blue goes too but it penetrates well enough. good luck.

 

[pjogrinc]

It's a 2 sided nipple with a shield just behind it and the flats on the nipple are 90 degrees to the barrel, so you can not get a wrench on it. Am in the process of making one, almost done. The simple store bought ones are just too flimse and I can spread one with just a one handed twist on it.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Wouldn't it be just a lot easier, simpler and cheaper go get a tin of MUSKET caps that will fit the existing nipple? :surrender:

Or #10 caps? They are available. That being said, the nipple does need to come out. Try smokehouseman's suggested method, that should work. If the original nipple and it's seat are found to be sound, then continue to use it but the nipple and seat should be cleaned every time the gun is used.