How do you get oil based stains to penetrate the layers of wood that don't want to stain. I am workin on CVA kit gun wood. It is a lot darker than Iplanned already and it is still blotchy. It has had three coats. All three times the stock was prepped with a conditioner before applying the stain. I have not tried heat yet.
Oil based stains
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Russianblood
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I've never liked oil based stains. A good alcohol based stain/dye will stain much deeper into the wood.
Alcohol or water based stains will work much better on gunstocks, you can put it on strong and wool it down to even it and get the shade you want, many supply houses sell it and you can get it in small cans so there will be little leftover(waste)
runner: I don't have a good answer but I do have some sympathy for your plight.
As the others have mentioned, staining with any oil base stain isn't the best way to go but as I recall, most stains have trouble with the CVA stocks.
At least, I have had trouble with them. The wood seems to take the stain in some places and absolutly refuses to take the stain in other areas.
I don't know what kind of white wood they use but whatever it is it is difficult to work with.
Getting back to the water/alcohol based stains, they work better than any oil base stains because you can apply multiple coats until you get the darkness you want. With oil based stains, once the wood has absorbed all of the oil it can, your stuck.
If you want to try one of the water based stains you will have to totally "kill" any and all of the oil that's soaked into the wood. Any oil at all will prevent the water based stains from soaking in.
To kill the oil, you may have to soak the stock with something like MEK, Acetone or Disk Brake Cleaner.
All of these are really bad for your body so don't breath them any more than you have to. Also, the MEK and Acetone are explosive so keep them away from any source of ignition.
Another way of getting the oil out is to call a professional wood refinishing shop. They can totally distroy the existing oil without removing any of the wood. They might also have some good words of advice on how to get the CVA wood to stain more uniformly.
zonie
As the others have mentioned, staining with any oil base stain isn't the best way to go but as I recall, most stains have trouble with the CVA stocks.
At least, I have had trouble with them. The wood seems to take the stain in some places and absolutly refuses to take the stain in other areas.
I don't know what kind of white wood they use but whatever it is it is difficult to work with.
Getting back to the water/alcohol based stains, they work better than any oil base stains because you can apply multiple coats until you get the darkness you want. With oil based stains, once the wood has absorbed all of the oil it can, your stuck.
If you want to try one of the water based stains you will have to totally "kill" any and all of the oil that's soaked into the wood. Any oil at all will prevent the water based stains from soaking in.
To kill the oil, you may have to soak the stock with something like MEK, Acetone or Disk Brake Cleaner.
All of these are really bad for your body so don't breath them any more than you have to. Also, the MEK and Acetone are explosive so keep them away from any source of ignition.
Another way of getting the oil out is to call a professional wood refinishing shop. They can totally distroy the existing oil without removing any of the wood. They might also have some good words of advice on how to get the CVA wood to stain more uniformly.
zonie
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Hi,
With oil stain I always put down a number of coats of the conditioner before I start to stain.
If you want to switch to a different product in the middle of the project a coat or two of shellac over the oil will seal it so that you can try something else over it. Although your penetration of further color at that point can become difficult. Gel stains can sometimes be easier to apply more evenly and are what I like to use. Good Luck
With oil stain I always put down a number of coats of the conditioner before I start to stain.
If you want to switch to a different product in the middle of the project a coat or two of shellac over the oil will seal it so that you can try something else over it. Although your penetration of further color at that point can become difficult. Gel stains can sometimes be easier to apply more evenly and are what I like to use. Good Luck
paulvallandigham
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If wiping the stock to be stain with denatured alcohol before using an oil based stain does not help, then stop using the oil based stain, and use either a water or alcohol based stain, as other have recommended, here. Sometimes woods will have some kind of oil in the wood cells, and you can cut that with alcohol. Don't ask me where the oils come from, because I don't know. There are, of course, woods that are very oily, such as Brazilian Rosewood, and you will never get the oils out of that wood! I am assuming you have a piece of walnut or maple. Try the alcohol, or use a different stain. I have not experienced the blotchy problem using water and alcohol based stains.
Somebody suggested that it may be beech. Anyway, here is why I wanted to use the oil.
The gold against the dark brown is nice from a couple of viewpoints! It is much darker than what the camera shows. That strip of gold curl runs pretty much full length of the stock.
The gold against the dark brown is nice from a couple of viewpoints! It is much darker than what the camera shows. That strip of gold curl runs pretty much full length of the stock.
Russ T Frizzen
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A lot of CVAs were stocked with a European beechwood. It makes a durable stock, but not a pretty one. And it tends to repel oil based stains like water off a duck's back. The harder bits of the wood are nearly impossible to stain.
Russianblood
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It sure looks like beech to me. I'd lightly sand it down and remove the oil based stain and start over with the water/alcohol based stain. The signature beech light spots won't go away but hopefully it will get rid of your "gold streaks".
Bountyhunter
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CVA used to use a lot of Sycamore. I think that you will find that that circular grain or medullary raying is Sycamore. Sycamore is a virtual bugger to stain.
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This conversation has saved me a whole bunch of potential heartburn, because I was just about to stain a stock and wanted it dark. Had the can of Minwax oil based stain all ready to go.
FWIW, Birchwood Casey's walnut stain is water based. That's the route I'll go now, and thanks to all.
FWIW, Birchwood Casey's walnut stain is water based. That's the route I'll go now, and thanks to all.
Well, I decided not to give up just yet. I want this gun to look as nice as possible. If I have to order a maple stock and start over, I will. I really hate to do that if I don't have to on short barreled halfstock kit gun.
Today I started by wiping it down with mineral spirits, heating it with a heat gun and wiping it down again. I heated the oven to 200 degrees and shut it off. I put the stock in the oven to warm up. I applied a coat of conditioner while re-heated the oven. I baked that coat in. I did it over again with the conditioner. It just came out from the new coat of stain and a heat treatment. Looks like it may have caused some color migration into the problem areas, but not nearly enough. It gave me enough improvement to be worth doing once or twice more in hopes of saving this piece of wood.
Anyway, I am happily experimenting away here! Hope all is well where you are too!
Today I started by wiping it down with mineral spirits, heating it with a heat gun and wiping it down again. I heated the oven to 200 degrees and shut it off. I put the stock in the oven to warm up. I applied a coat of conditioner while re-heated the oven. I baked that coat in. I did it over again with the conditioner. It just came out from the new coat of stain and a heat treatment. Looks like it may have caused some color migration into the problem areas, but not nearly enough. It gave me enough improvement to be worth doing once or twice more in hopes of saving this piece of wood.
Anyway, I am happily experimenting away here! Hope all is well where you are too!
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Here's an alternate idea for you, FWIW. Years ago I reshaped the stocks on a Savage Stevens double 410. The original finish was walnut, but the wood under it was as blond as Marlyn Monroe. No clue what it was, but it simply would not pick up stain. I ended up mixing stain into my finish, so that each successive coat took it a shade darker. End results were what I wanted, but it took a whole lot of coats.
It was so long ago I can't even remember the brand of stain I used, but I noticed last night that TOW says their stains can be mixed with their finish. Once you get things a little more uniform, that might let you take it darker. For that matter, is there a chance you could add it selectively to your light spots? Dunno.
It was so long ago I can't even remember the brand of stain I used, but I noticed last night that TOW says their stains can be mixed with their finish. Once you get things a little more uniform, that might let you take it darker. For that matter, is there a chance you could add it selectively to your light spots? Dunno.
you might want a warmer color. I'd warm it up with something yellow to orange to reddish in tint.
That may be beech, but looks like sycamore to me. Beech is much heavier than sycamore. If it feels lighter than it should, its probably sycamore. If as havy as ash, then beech or birch. I agree, the old CVA stocks were a bugger to take stain, whatever they were made of. Never saw one break, though, so it is tough wood.
That may be beech, but looks like sycamore to me. Beech is much heavier than sycamore. If it feels lighter than it should, its probably sycamore. If as havy as ash, then beech or birch. I agree, the old CVA stocks were a bugger to take stain, whatever they were made of. Never saw one break, though, so it is tough wood.
Anything with red in it tends to make the light patches look pink. Thinking about putting it in a box of fresh cat litter for a week or so to draw some of the oil out of it. Perhaps I can get some more color in that way. If they were having the winter gathering at Old Mines, I would likely go looking for another stock to start over. The forearm line is not off like it shows in that picture!
Russ T Frizzen
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One thing about European beechwood is that it was often chosen deliberately by armories in Europe due to its toughness. The Austrians seem to have used it quite often. It wasn't pretty, but it got the job done.
I think if I was building a gun using a beech stock I might consider a very dark finish. Obscuring the grain and giving the gun a mildly aged look would completely change its appearance.
I think if I was building a gun using a beech stock I might consider a very dark finish. Obscuring the grain and giving the gun a mildly aged look would completely change its appearance.
CrackStock
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I have a Chech .22 with a beech stock. I am thinking of using a bit of red and very dark over it to mimic aged cherry. It is a strong wood, but is just not colorful.
CS
CS
Well, I have a section finished ok, but progress is slow! This is just stain so far, so I think it will look better than I had hoped. Pecatonica did not answer this afternoon or I might have a new precarve on it's way right now.
On the plus side, the experiments are a blast. My version of vinegar stain must not be quite ready. It turns things gray or black!. I strirred it with a white oak handle. It turns white oak dead black. On maple it turns light greenish gray. However, if you use a damp rag and just wet the surface, The gray is different depths. A rub down with bleach when it hits the shade you stops it from getting any darker. Clean it up and hit it with a good oil finish and you get eye popping two toned curl. I did the other side of the scrap piece with the oil stain just to see the difference between the vinegar treated area and the plain wood. The stained plain wood is a bright gold with bright curl. It would need something to tone it down some. I could see real promise with the vinegar stains if you could control the color and eliminate the graying.
On the plus side, the experiments are a blast. My version of vinegar stain must not be quite ready. It turns things gray or black!. I strirred it with a white oak handle. It turns white oak dead black. On maple it turns light greenish gray. However, if you use a damp rag and just wet the surface, The gray is different depths. A rub down with bleach when it hits the shade you stops it from getting any darker. Clean it up and hit it with a good oil finish and you get eye popping two toned curl. I did the other side of the scrap piece with the oil stain just to see the difference between the vinegar treated area and the plain wood. The stained plain wood is a bright gold with bright curl. It would need something to tone it down some. I could see real promise with the vinegar stains if you could control the color and eliminate the graying.
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