Ok question on round balls

[Crow#21957]

Shooting 32,,36,,40,,50 and on up
What is the overall opinion or fact on which ball would shoot most accurate. I know there's alit if variables but your experience does swaged or cast shoit the best. And that reminds me,,I have been taught on cast balls the sprue should go towards muzzle which seems wrong to me but just stating what some others have told me many years ago.

 

[Mgbruch]

In my .50 and .58 caliber flintlocks I have shot both swaged and cast balls; and have seen no difference in accuracy. I only shoot cast balls now. I've got a lot of lead, and see no reason to buy swaged balls. Accuracy is excellent, and I've never felt the desire to try grouping with sprue down. It's just a question I've never needed an answer to.

Having said that... When loading I can be certain that the sprue is as centered as I can get it. If I were to load with the sprue down, I can't see it to make certain that it is, in fact, centered. Just a thought.

 

[longcruise]

Shooting 32,,36,,40,,50 and on up
What is the overall opinion or fact on which ball would shoot most accurate. I know there's alit if variables but your experience does swaged or cast shoit the best. And that reminds me,,I have been taught on cast balls the sprue should go towards muzzle which seems wrong to me but just stating what some others have told me many years ago.

I shoot. 005 under in all my rifles 45, 50, 54 and 58. That method gives me quite good accuracy. However, my best accuracy has been with.
010 under in a 54 with a very thick patch. It required a hard rubber mallet to start it though. Ok for loading at a bench during a match but otherwise a PITA.

Cast and swaged are both equally accurate for me but they need to be carefully cast to keep them consistent. Hornady are the only swaged I've used and except for the price are fine by me.

Sprue to the muzzle is what I've always done so I can't comment on sprue down.

 

[Crow#21957]

In my .50 and .58 caliber flintlocks I have shot both swaged and cast balls; and have seen no difference in accuracy. I only shoot cast balls now. I've got a lot of lead, and see no reason to buy swaged balls. Accuracy is excellent, and I've never felt the desire to try grouping with sprue down. It's just a question I've never needed an answer to.

Having said that... When loading I can be certain that the sprue is as centered as I can get it. If I were to load with the sprue down, I can't see it to make certain that it is, in fact, centered. Just a thought.

 

[Crow#21957]

Thanks Mgbruch

 

[DuncNZ]

If the swaged ball and the cast ball are free of voids , ie pre weighed , and the cast bullet is loaded sprue up there is no real difference . As to the sprue up , any mark on any bullets base can make it deviate more than any mark on the front of the bullet .
A properly cast ball is more likely to be free of voids than a swaged ball , and in a large ball small differences in weight will not be a destabilizing influence as they may be in a small ball ,on a % of weight basis

 

[Art Caputo]

Given swaged and cast LRB’s of equal integrity, I see no difference in accuracy or precision between swaged and cast. Nor have I seen differences in accuracy or precision between calibers from 40-58 at my typical ML ranges(25-100 yards). Besides LRB weight, the difference between the caliber sizes is the greater ballistic coefficient as ball diameter increases which effect wind drift, trajectory, and of course, energy delivered at the target(and recoil to the shooter). My personal 100-120 yard accuracy/precision is generally better as ranges approach 100-120 yards as the ball diameter/weight increases.
If I expect shooting at these longer ranges, I like my 58 cal…..Comparable trajectory(5-6” drop) using a 279gr, 58 cal LRB at 1400FPS as my 177gr, 50 Cal at 1750FPS…at100 yards.
‘

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

best shooting gun i ever shot was a .40 with a 46 inch oct to rnd Getz barrel, chambers late Kentland lock.

 

[SciAggie]

My experience has been different that several posters. I see a real accuraccy improvement in well cast balls vs. swaged round balls. If you go through and sort the swaged balls by weight the variance is minimized. This could be a function of the size RB I'm using. My experience is based on casting .715 round balls for my English Sporting Rifle. There is a significant difference in the weight variation in swaged RB and hand cast. There is a measureable difference on the targets. YMMV
I haven't tested the difference in smaller calibers. If I did my experience might end up the same as the previous posters.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Crow#21957, accuracy is much more than simply selection of ball size. Groove depth, rate of twist, powder charge, compression of powder charge, patch lubricant and other aspects of loading all go into the accuracy of a load.

Let's listen to Longcruise and clarify a few things to start.

I shoot. 005 under in all my rifles 45, 50, 54 and 58. That method gives me quite good accuracy. However, my best accuracy has been with.
010 under in a 54 with a very thick patch. It required a hard rubber mallet to start it though. Ok for loading at a bench during a match but otherwise a PITA.

Cast and swaged are both equally accurate for me but they need to be carefully cast to keep them consistent. Hornady are the only swaged I've used and except for the price are fine by me.

Sprue to the muzzle is what I've always done so I can't comment on sprue down.

Use ball that are of the same weight to establish size consistency. Cast balls should be weighed to eliminate balls with voids. Since I like visual aids, the sprue of a cast ball should be toward the muzzle and centered in the patch at the muzzle.

The patch should be thick enough to fill the grooves and compress enough to fill the windage between the ball and the lands.

Patch lubricant should soften the fouling left from the previous shot while easing the loading of the ball and patch. This may require a short starter.

the loading rod should have a jag that is concave and shaped to the same diameter as the ball.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

FWIW, many years ago the 'Bevel Brothers' in the Muzzle Blasts magazine did a bunch of testing with cast roundballs ... with the sprue up, down, tilted off to the side, out into the rifling and anywhere they could load it - forcibly as needed - and they all shot into the same group out to 50-yards as I recall.

I do weigh sort them for my competitions and group them in grain increments by weight, but otherwise believe that any difference between cast or swaged to be a lesser factor affecting the expected mean radius of dispersion of the arm/load capability.

 

[SciAggie]

mean radius of dispersion of the arm/load capability.

I love the way you said group size, lol

 

[Rifleman1776]

Art pretty well covered it. Caliber does not determine accuracy. But for target/competion shooting the larger calibers have an edge because they are not affected by wind as much as the little ones. As for quality of balls, that can be a 'nuther issue. I like good balls with no wrinkles or pockets. But, I did have an experience that befuddles the whole issue. Once at a major competition in my state I was shooting my favorite target rifle, the one I call 'half breed'. Usually very accurate, that day I couldn't get smaller than garbage can lid groups at 25 yards, very frustrating. In between one relay, an old time friend gave me a big handful of balls and said, "use these". Well, folks, they were the worstest, pocketed, wrinkliest awful balls I had ever seen. But, that day, I couldn't do any worse and he was a friend. I tried them and my groups went down to small, winning sizes. Yes, it still befuddles me and defies all we think we know about this crazy game.

 

[Crow#21957]

I was just curious. Sounds like there is not any notable difference. The sprue out has worked for me. Besides like the one guy said you can't really tell where the sprue is if loaded with sprue towards breech.

 

[springfield art]

Shooting 32,,36,,40,,50 and on up
What is the overall opinion or fact on which ball would shoot most accurate. I know there's alit if variables but your experience does swaged or cast shoit the best. And that reminds me,,I have been taught on cast balls the sprue should go towards muzzle which seems wrong to me but just stating what some others have told me many years ago.

That's why I like Hornady swaged, but actually I don't cast much anymore!

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I love the way you said group size, lol

Great comment! But they're actually quite different, as the mean radius of dispersion is statistically based, versus a simple, single one-time measurement. Anything statistical can therefore have a prediction. Think of it as 'inherent capability' rather than "Wow, I did good - at least once anyways".

I don't bother with the MR for my BP arms, but I am well familiar with the process and use it for my 600 to 1,000-yard F-Class unmentionables. It is quite useful though, for any serious study of external ballistics.

With all that seriousness aside, recall that whereas 10-shots may be a group, and 5-shots may be a favorable trend ... know that one good 3-shot group can make you an instant online internet Superstar, LOL!

 

[SciAggie]

@Flint62Smoothie I'm a science guy so I do understand the difference. I was just having a bit of fun - not many folks respond to a thread like this so eloquently...

 

[Dan BruinsSlot]

Shooting 32,,36,,40,,50 and on up
What is the overall opinion or fact on which ball would shoot most accurate. I know there's alit if variables but your experience does swaged or cast shoit the best. And that reminds me,,I have been taught on cast balls the sprue should go towards muzzle which seems wrong to me but just stating what some others have told me many years ago.

I always favored cast because they're formed to the barrel better.
As to the sprue, it could throw the ball out of balance. By pointing it toward the muzzle it can be centered better.

 

[M. De Land]

Great comment! But they're actually quite different, as the mean radius of dispersion is statistically based, versus a simple, single one-time measurement. Anything statistical can therefore have a prediction. Think of it as 'inherent capability' rather than "Wow, I did good - at least once anyways".

I don't bother with the MR for my BP arms, but I am well familiar with the process and use it for my 600 to 1,000-yard F-Class unmentionables. It is quite useful though, for any serious study of external ballistics.

With all that seriousness aside, recall that whereas 10-shots may be a group, and 5-shots may be a favorable trend ... know that one good 3-shot group can make you an instant online internet Superstar, LOL!

In midrange shooting and beyond 600-1000 yards we talked much about the "cone of dispersion" which seems to really become evident in 10 shot groups and greater.
Ten shot groups really start to tell the accuracy potential story in my opinion.
When testing a new match .22 I made some years back it was quite easy to get five shot groups at 100 yards in an inch group but ten shots were far more difficult and when one could get several of these stacked up you knew you were getting dialed in.
With flint gun shooting two things I like and think make for consistency is to re-knapp the flint edge every ten shots and wipe out the bore between shots with a spit patch.

 

[Rifleman1776]

wipe out the bore between shots with a spit patch.

Amen, Bro.