OK you underhammer experts.

[Pittsburghunter]

I have a friend who's buddy is asking us to get his Numrick Arms H&A "Offhand" .45cal ready for service this hunting season. My buddy estimates the barrel to be around 30" and the finish is crude on this rifle. I have yet to see it or handle it but before I dare shoot the thing it has issues that need to be addressed.

When they test fired it this last weekend the nipple gave out giving the owner some new tattoo's he will be carrying the rest of his life and I need to know what size replacement nipple to buy. Also if there are some suggested whitetail loads for the thing I would also thank you for that.

Anyone have a clue what the rate of twist in this thing is?

I have never shot an underhammer and will not unless I know it is safe to shoot.

 

[jimbo15563]

That H&A underhammer should be a very reliable, accurate shooter. The barrel is a 1:66 twist-best with patched round balls. It will also shoot very short conicals. I'd recommend real black powder, probably Goex or Swiss FFFG. It will also shoot Pyrodex. Start with 50 grains and work upwards upward in 5-grain increments until you get nice tight groups. Varying the thickness of your patches can also tighten up the groups.

It's important that you find out WHY that nipple blew. Was it cross-threaded? Was he using too much powder? If so, are the threads in the barrel still OK? I'd have a good gunsmith check this out. It's possible that it will need to be re-threaded and will require an oversize nipple.

I would recommend two experts who could help you. Bruce at

Blue Grouse Black Powder

deals exclusively with H&A underhammers. He is a source for information, parts, and conical bullets. You can contact him via email or phone.

Ron Blomquist at

Blomquist Percussion Works

makes and sells custom nipples and kits complete with pick and wrench. I'm sure he'd be happy to advise you on the nipple problem.

There are also some guys on this forum who own and shoot underhammers. I've learned a lot from them. I'm sure they will post good information when they see your thread.

Good Luck
Jimbo

 

[walruskid1]

the h&a's had a 1/4-32 thread nipple. most replacement barrels have a 1/4-28, very important to check before replacement, as the wrong one will thread in with a little effort but will not be secure. i second the motion on calling bruce at blue grouse. dixie gun works has a fine selection of oversized nipples and taps.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

I guess I should have been more clear. The nipple it self is has corroded and the hole is now big enough to put a pipe cleaner all the way through it into the barrel. We are talking extreme blowback. This is an origional barrel but the gun was sold as a Numrick Arms Offhand so I guess the origional nipple size will apply.

 

[walruskid1]

powder burns on the forearm can be real interesting. i know from experience. if its a factory barrel its 1/4-32 unless its been altered. call ozzie at the log cabin gun shop or gun parts corp. may have them. good luck dave

 

[neil]

I have the same rifle and the same blowout happened to me.
The gunsmith I took it to put in a 1\4x28 .10 oversize nipple, as opposed to 1\4x32,my threads were also gone.
It has been fine ever since.

FYI...60 grains Pyrodex FFG, nice tight groups!

 

[walruskid1]

zrex - he didn't lose the nipple, its just burned out. i'm using 50 3f 777 and a prb. 1 hole at 50 yds off the bench, never worked up a hunting load with this one.

 

[neil]

I got it now, missread "nipple gave out"
Thanks for clarifacation.

 

[walruskid1]

zrex- how does your underhammer shoot? is it a a heritage, buggy, or target? .45?

 

[neil]

Numrich arms "The Offhand" in .45.It shoots very well.
Is there a difference between it and the Heritage?

 

[walruskid1]

i think the main change was the heritage had a patchbox. pittsburghunter - sorry to hijack the thread, let me know how the nipple problem worked out.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Hijacked? I think not you folks are doing what I hoped. I need to report back to my friend all that I can gather about the rifle(s). His buddy wants to use it whitetail hunting but now I think he may need to change plans unless a higher roundball charge can be used. .45 ballets are hard to find around here and most .45 ammo on the shelves are made for inlines. I can get the balls though so I would like to comfirm a good stout charge for deer. If not we will have a good target gun and I will loan out one of mine for Pittsburg this fall. :thanks:

 

just remember one thing which everyone will probably disagree with. there has been many a deer taken with a .45 roundball. if i am not mistake which i m sure i will be corrected the early kentucky and pennsylvania rifle were all .45 or lower and they did'nt starve to death. i am usin a .45 this year for deer it is a underhammer aswell. :m2c: :results:

 

[Rebel]

70-80 grs of 3f should be sufficient for deer hunting with a Patched round ball in a .45 cal.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Rebel, once we put a new nipple in the underhammer will it handle that stout a load? The rifle seems to be in exellent repair.

That would be great news for me I love to help people out with their rifles.

 

[Rebel]

If the nipple you put in is the right thread, and it is a good solid fit, then i would say there shouldn't be a problem. I don't shoot underhammers, but i do shoot a double barrel shotgun that has the nipple threaded right into the barrel and i use over 100 grs of powder in it at times, with a round ball that weighs a whole lot more than a .45 cal. does. :m2c:

 

[Pittsburghunter]

I have less than a month to try this rifle and have plenty of rifles for this guy to hunt with so if the next range report is bad he will hunt with a .50cal sidelock and we will worry about it next year. I know standard percussion and flinklock in .45 are fine for deer. I just have no info on underhammers.

 

[Rebel]

I assume the only difference between a sidelock and an underhammer is the method of ignition. They should be able to handle the same loads.

 

[jimbo15563]

Bruce at Blue Grouse swears by conicals. He has a lot of different molds and casts and sells them at $2 per pound plus shipping. He's got a .45 240 gr maxi-ball that he says will shoot in a twist a low as 1:72. He also sells minies, and will even sell you a "sampler" of conicals so that you can find the right one. You CAN shoot conicals out of 1:66 barrels. They just have to be shorter ones. The shorter the bullet, the less spin required to stabilize it. There is even a formula (I forget its name) which will tell you the maximum length conical which will shoot accurately thru any given twist barrel.

On the other hand, the PRB guys will tell you that .45 PRB of nice soft lead and a good healthy powder charge can get you 1800+ FPS muzzle velocity with tack driving-accuracy and plenty of punch to take out a deer.

Above all, don't let that nipple incident sour you on what is a fine rifle. The action has only 3 moving parts so it will be trouble-free. The fact that the cap is firing UP and close to the powder charge gives you a fast lock time. You can rival the accuracy of those I$%&*) rifles that we can't mention here.

Yes, you could get a little nipple spit even with a new one. Just remember to wear long sleeves when you're shooting it. You'll be fine. Good luck.

Jimbo

 

[walruskid1]

as for the size of the powder charge, i have fired mine with up to 100 gr of 3f and a prb. couldn't hit a damn thing but it sure looked good. i'll stick with 50 gr. several books list 70gr. as the optimum load for that rifle. i wrap a piece of sahran (spelling?) wrap around the action when i deer hunt. makes sure the cap stays on and also keeps the action dry. the hammer will still fire the cap. as with any hunt, shot placement is the key.