Old Original ML Rifles

[8905c]

I have several issues of Muzzle Blasts from the 40's through 60's. I still enjoy looking at articles in these magazines, especially stories about finding old original ML rifles, and getting them back into shooting condition. This is an aspect of muzzleloading that has always interested me. I realize there wasn't much being manufactered in the way of reproduction rifles or parts at that time, but it is amazing to read how they brought these old rifles back to life and used them to hunt, etc.
Just wondering if many others enjoy this part of muzzleloading.
8905c

 

[84bronze]

I think restoring an old original is the way to go. You take something that was built long ago and bring it back to it's original condition the best you can. With the woodworking that was used on old muzzleloaders it's the same as restoring antique furniture. Using original methods and learning how things were done is half the fun of messing with them.

Finding an original is the hard part now days.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The value of many originals was ruined in the 1960's by well meaning folks who did not know what they were doing.

The first thing a novice wants to do involves sand paper...... a sure path to destruction.

Originals found today are often too valuable to mess around with. Or they are so far gone that major work is required.
I purchased originals in the 1970's just to keep them from being stripped for parts.
I shoot two original percussion guns but not as my go to guns.

One had a badly neglected bore which Mr. Hoyt re - rifled for me. Otherwise it needed little work. I have one in the closet that I have been reluctant to begin because I don't want to detract from its historical value.

 

[smo]

At least finding one in restorable shape is hard to find

 

[Heelerau]

I have an original Pat 1853, got that going when I was about 12yrs old, still have it and it shoots well.
There is a lot to be said for bringing an original back to service. there are ways of doing it with out ruining the gun.

cheers

heelerau

 

[fleener]

Originals are out there and if you look in the right places are quite easy to find. Condition and cost are always two issues to deal with however.

I have several originals that I use.

Fleener

 

[84bronze]

There is a story of an "original" 1600's chair that sold for lots of money as it was determined that it was original because the way it was built. It was perfect and thought of as the lost chair that had been sought after for so many years. A few years later it was determined to be a fake. Technology used a xray to see that the mortises for the joints were drilled by an auger bit. Auger bits never existed in the 1600's because spoon bits were all they had.

Using period correct tools keeps it period correct. Sandpaper, power tool, etc... did not exist in the 1700's.

Making a reproduction is different than restoring an original.

 

[bpd303]

To me there is nothing more satisfying than to be able to make the old one's speak again. Now if it's a real valuable antique then no I won't be restoring or shooting it, however the guns I have restored do not fit into that category but they are all old with history behind them (even if I don't know what it is).
Right now I think I have more shoot-able old ones than reproductions. This one was especially satisfying to do. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/288590/post/1394956/hl//fromsearch/1/

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originals are out there and if you look in the right places are quite easy to find. Condition and cost are always two issues to deal with however.

I have several originals that I use.

Fleener

I am on a Facebook page for flintlock discussion. There is a builder ( a very good one, judging from his pics) that posts pics of original rifles he has recently purchased. He posts several per week. :shocked2: That must mean they are still out there waiting to be discovered. Who knows what lurks in the closets of those old homes out there?

 

[Billnpatti]

I have a friend who lives in Seymour, Indiana who finds and restores old original rifles and shotguns. I have seen him take an old gun that he had bought from a vendor at Friendship that looked for all the world like junk and turn it into a fine shooting gun for his grandson. He's got the gift. :thumbsup:

 

[larryp]

What's the FB page if you don't mind my asking?

 

[AZbpBurner]

Back in the early 70's I lived in Ohio and would occasionally see an old guy at the range where I'd frequently shoot. He was always shooting a beautiful muzzleloader, and it was never the same one. The rifles looked nearly new, from what I could tell, and I just assumed that he was building and selling them, although I'd never seen him at any of the OGCA shows.

I finally approached him to admire a particularly stunning rifle and asked him if he had made all those rifles. Upon close inspection, you could tell this rifle had been around for a while, but until he told me it was an original I'd have never believed it.

One of his forebears was a judge, mayor or some higher up in a little town, and he began accumulating all the best rifles from widows of deceased friends he used to shoot with. Apparently there was a lot of turkey shoots and competition for pies, hams and such, and all the well-to-do brought all their best firearms to compete. Eventually many of the best rifles belonged to this guy. They were all passed down thru family generations, and the current shooter had them all. As I recall, they were to be passed down to the next generation as a complete collection, and he never said how many there were, but I'd seen close to a dozen different rifles.

The first flintlock I'd ever fired was one of his originals, and it was "plainer" yet still a head turner. The guy's son who was to receive the collection was killed in Viet Nam, and fortunately there was a grandson waiting to grow up to inherit it all.

NONE of these rifles were rusted, pitted, chipped, faded or neglected, but were cared for and kept as new condition. Doubtful any were ever carried in rain or foul weather, and all were excellent examples of the gunmaker's craft.

 

[Dphar]

I have several issues of Muzzle Blasts from the 40's through 60's. I still enjoy looking at articles in these magazines, especially stories about finding old original ML rifles, and getting them back into shooting condition. This is an aspect of muzzleloading that has always interested me. I realize there wasn't much being manufactered in the way of reproduction rifles or parts at that time, but it is amazing to read how they brought these old rifles back to life and used them to hunt, etc.
Just wondering if many others enjoy this part of muzzleloading.
8905c

While I understand why it was done...
This practice resulted in a lot of historical data about bore sizes, land groove ratios and rifling twists being lost. Then there was the installation of modern target sights, sometimes drilling and tapping and other modern improvements. It was a huge mistake from my perspective.

Dan

 

[garra]

My first ML was an original, found it on GB. I wasn't even into ML shooting at the time, but something about the appearance of it made me bid on it. Had it for a year and a half before I even shot it. It was made in the early 1850s, barrel by James Little, gunsmith was a WS Ford. They worked in the Cincinnati, Ohio area at the time. It is a 32 cal and it shoots like a little dream.
I didn't have to do anything except replace the blanked off rear sight and ram rod.
They are out there, but I would expect to pay $500 and up for one in halfway decent condition.

 

[Rifleman1776]

What's the FB page if you don't mind my asking?

https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/536169019729482/

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have a friend who lives in Seymour, Indiana who finds and restores old original rifles and shotguns. I have seen him take an old gun that he had bought from a vendor at Friendship that looked for all the world like junk and turn it into a fine shooting gun for his grandson. He's got the gift. :thumbsup:

I used to live only a few miles from Seymour. Where were all those old rifles hiding?

 

[rickystl]

I own a number of original flintlocks that I've had restored to firing condition. For this type of restoration I try to locate a gun that is less than prime collector condition, but better than a wall hanger, if you know what I mean. :haha: As mentioned above, it's not my first go-to guns, but there is that extra little thrill you get shooting an original. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[Billnpatti]

I have no idea, you would have to ask my friend, Tim. I know he bought several at Friendship from time to time but I don't know where he got the others.

BTW, where in Indiana did you used to live?

 

[Grumpa]

Fellow I worked with kept telling me about this old caplock rifle he had. I kept asking him to bring it in.

One day, he said to me: "Wait until you see that rifle! I got rid of the ugly brown on the metal, and gave it a nice new blue job. And I refinished the stock with a shiny urethane."

I told him not to bother bringing it in.

 

[rickystl]

:shocked2: :slap: