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Guest
A friend of mine killed a big doe (legal) here recently with a single shot .22 loaded with low velocity target loads (illegal here) on his property--one shot to the head. I DO NOT CONDONE THIS....just reporting it...it can be done, but is not a good practice nor is it legal in most states. I am surprised that NC is more backward on this than LA--we are usually the most backward state in the Union on everything! BYW, a .22 centerfire is legal here, just not rimfires.
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
We just prefer less governmental interference here in NC.... :grin:
Hi romeoh,
I ask the DEVA. They told me it is like I have postet, but the problem with slugs and that they are not rifle cartridges is known but will be ignored. By the letters of law it is a commitment to shoot with 12 gauge slugs at wildboars or reddeer.So thats the cause why the DJV keeps calm until now in the GE ML hunting debate.They are afraid of being confronted with their own commitments.
By the way the Oberland gets white too.
I ask the DEVA. They told me it is like I have postet, but the problem with slugs and that they are not rifle cartridges is known but will be ignored. By the letters of law it is a commitment to shoot with 12 gauge slugs at wildboars or reddeer.So thats the cause why the DJV keeps calm until now in the GE ML hunting debate.They are afraid of being confronted with their own commitments.
By the way the Oberland gets white too.
Which has it's own degree of absurdity to the decision...somebody at the WRC probably looked at some "ballistics" that showed gargantuan ME levels from a tiny 55grn bullet at super high velocity and declared it a deer cartridge...when if fact the tiny bullet would disintegrate almost immediately upon hitting a deer and the deer would run off with a wound to infect. To me legalizing that makes it worse because some fool would actually use it to try a shot at 100-200 yards.Mike Roberts said:
At least with a .22 rimfire everybody knows it's a close range squirrel rifle and wouldn't think about a ridiculously long body shot at a deer...but at the 25-50yd distances I hunt in thick woods I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a standing deer in the head with a good scoped .22 rifle.
:hmm: :hmm: In fact that might just be a good reason to sell another CF deer rifle and get a nice .22 rifle...keep the Leupold 3.5 x 10 x 50 off the deer rifle and mount it on the .22...have good gathering light at dusk
Hmmm, romeoh brings up a valid point. You are not using a rifle CARTRIDGE. Technically you would not be violating the letter of the law by using roundballs.
I don't know what the DEVA or the DJV are or how the legal system works in GE either but,
Does the DEVA have the power to interpret the exact meaning of the written laws?
Does the person you talked to at the DEVA have the power to interpret the DEVA stance on the issue or only one personal opinion?
Would it stand up in court since the written law states "rifle cartridges"?
Would the fine/punishment be worth the risk to challenge the law?
How do "they" know what you rammed down your barrel anyway?
Have you talked with the DJV to try and gain their support? Shotguns and MLs are a lot alike.
HMMM... :hmm:
I don't know what the DEVA or the DJV are or how the legal system works in GE either but,
Does the DEVA have the power to interpret the exact meaning of the written laws?
Does the person you talked to at the DEVA have the power to interpret the DEVA stance on the issue or only one personal opinion?
Would it stand up in court since the written law states "rifle cartridges"?
Would the fine/punishment be worth the risk to challenge the law?
How do "they" know what you rammed down your barrel anyway?
Have you talked with the DJV to try and gain their support? Shotguns and MLs are a lot alike.
HMMM... :hmm:
Hi,
the DEVA is a institution non gouvernment, which tests all kind of handguns in GE. Their results are acknowledged even from the authorities. The leader of the DEVA told me that in general a ML can be used for hunting when it is able to bring the minimum 100m energy which the law rules. And I would say starting with cal. 45 and conicals they do. He further said that the DJV (German hunters association) wold not be happy about ML hunting in GE, but can't do anythinf, because it is not forbidden by law. After that he told me the thing with the slugs which are also not bringing the necessary 100m energy for big game, but nevertheless they are often used for it with the placet of the DJV and this is illegal. but you also can see it the other way around like romeoh does.
the DEVA is a institution non gouvernment, which tests all kind of handguns in GE. Their results are acknowledged even from the authorities. The leader of the DEVA told me that in general a ML can be used for hunting when it is able to bring the minimum 100m energy which the law rules. And I would say starting with cal. 45 and conicals they do. He further said that the DJV (German hunters association) wold not be happy about ML hunting in GE, but can't do anythinf, because it is not forbidden by law. After that he told me the thing with the slugs which are also not bringing the necessary 100m energy for big game, but nevertheless they are often used for it with the placet of the DJV and this is illegal. but you also can see it the other way around like romeoh does.
:hmm: Well,
what the DEVA says may be one way you can read the law.
But:
It surely is the best way for them. They earn money by testing cartridges about their pressure and of course also their energy.
If you read the law in this way that only riflecartridges are allowed and only if they bring the energy thats written down in the law
... then there´s nothing you can go hunting with that should not be tested by the DEVA.
I still would recommend to go to a lawyer specialized on hunting law - any enemy of ML-hunting will go the same way, so why not be the first one in the lawyers office?
In my opinion you are using a non-prohibited weapon for hunting - a weapon that don´t needs to be feeded with cartidges, for wich energy-limits exist.
romeoh
what the DEVA says may be one way you can read the law.
But:
It surely is the best way for them. They earn money by testing cartridges about their pressure and of course also their energy.
If you read the law in this way that only riflecartridges are allowed and only if they bring the energy thats written down in the law
... then there´s nothing you can go hunting with that should not be tested by the DEVA.
I still would recommend to go to a lawyer specialized on hunting law - any enemy of ML-hunting will go the same way, so why not be the first one in the lawyers office?
In my opinion you are using a non-prohibited weapon for hunting - a weapon that don´t needs to be feeded with cartidges, for wich energy-limits exist.
romeoh
romeoh said:
So, what WOULD the fine/punishment be for hunting with a PRB? If it is not TOO stiff, I might be tempted to put them to the test. Maybe just my rebellious American attitude... :winking:
If the German legal system works anything like the US system, bringing the question to the courts MAY be the best plan of action. With good legal counsel of course.
I would also consider contacting the DJV with a well-thought-out comparison of the similarities of a roundball and a shotgun slug. See if you could win their support on this basis. Couldn't hurt.
You should be able to find many examples to illustrate your point. After all, round balls have been used for literally hundreds of years to kill millions of critters.
Guest
roundball said:
Kinda off topic, but I love .22s and have several very accurate ones. I have cleanly killed animals up to 50 lbs with heart or head shots at up to 50 yds with my .22s, just not deer. My latest pet .22 is a CZ American--very accurate rifle.
Mike ,thank you for the info on the bess balls.
The bush that I hunt in yields only a 50-60 yard shot at the longest.
Most shooting happens 10-30 yards ,I agree with round ball that you should load for your longest shot of the day .
Paul ,that is the stuff I needed to read thank you for your insite .
This forum has a wealth of knowledgealbe members that freely share their wisdom and I thank them one and all. :hatsoff:
The bush that I hunt in yields only a 50-60 yard shot at the longest.
Most shooting happens 10-30 yards ,I agree with round ball that you should load for your longest shot of the day .
Paul ,that is the stuff I needed to read thank you for your insite .
This forum has a wealth of knowledgealbe members that freely share their wisdom and I thank them one and all. :hatsoff:
You are right in all points. It is true and not illegal to use a ML for hunting in GE, even at big game. That a RB is a suitable for killing deer qick and clean is showed every day in this forum. But you have to know that the leaders of the DJV are old and not able to change their opinion. They only believe in the pur energy of a bullet. And they don't like ML hunting, even they don't know anything about ML. When you tell them to look at the US, they will laugh at you and say:" We are not in America, we are no Amis.We are here in Germany."
But I try another way. I know an American who lives in GE and Croatia, who is also ML hunter and has good connections to several gun magazines. The chiefs there are also interested in ML hunting. So we will test several ML and make a big article in these magazines.This is the best way to publish the theme to many gunowners so that they see it is legal and useful to hunt with ML.
But I try another way. I know an American who lives in GE and Croatia, who is also ML hunter and has good connections to several gun magazines. The chiefs there are also interested in ML hunting. So we will test several ML and make a big article in these magazines.This is the best way to publish the theme to many gunowners so that they see it is legal and useful to hunt with ML.
rabbit03
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2005
- Messages
- 1,143
- Reaction score
- 17
Hi Mike, good information I appreciate it. I sure would hate to get deflated by a roundball even at 100 yds, no matter the size!
I see where you like the CZ! I was at the store last fall in Norwitch, NY. I am planning to go back again this fall and will look a little more closely at what they have to offer. Been wanting to have an accurate shooter in 25-06 made but might look at the CZ's a little bit more first!
Good info and thanks for doing the leg work on it and also for the post :thumbsup:
rabbit03
I see where you like the CZ! I was at the store last fall in Norwitch, NY. I am planning to go back again this fall and will look a little more closely at what they have to offer. Been wanting to have an accurate shooter in 25-06 made but might look at the CZ's a little bit more first!
Good info and thanks for doing the leg work on it and also for the post :thumbsup:
rabbit03
Hey, Headhunter, I enjoy shooting the tree rats with my .50 also.... ain't it a hoot! I waste a lot less meet than even when I use a .17 hmr. Makes a nice round hole in their little heads! If you can hit a squirrel in the head regularly, you can hit the killzone of a deer just as well....
I always load my gun for acuacy, it just happens that in my .50 T/C hawkens that it seems to like 85/90 grns of ffg goex for tightest groups so it works out to a good hunting load. I probably wouldn't shoot it at anything over 100 yrds ( my comfort zone, same as with a bow I dont shoot at anyting over 30 yrds again my confort zone. I gess what I am saying like somone else in this thred is acuacy or shot placement is king. It dosent matter if you can blow it off its feet you have to hit it first :thumbsup: :v Just my 2 cents Regards Dave T.
jimpickens
32 Cal.
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2007
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 0
495"roundball and 70grains of powder is sufficient for deer, bear, and most medium and big game.
