On the problem of Wolves

[Story]

Found this on another board and thought it might be of interest here:

. Noted naturalists documented wolf attacks on humans. John James Audubon of whom the Audubon Society is named, reported an attack involving 2 Negroes. He records that the men were traveling through a part of Kentucky near the Ohio border in winter. Due to the wild animals in the area the men carried axes on the shoulders as a precaution. While traveling through a heavily forested area, they were attacked by a pack of wolves. Using their axes, they attempted to fight off the wolves. Both men were knocked to the ground and severely wounded. One man was killed. The other dropped his ax and escaped up a tree. There he spent the night. The next morning the man climbed down from the tree. The bones of his friend lay scattered in the snow. Three wolves lay dead. He gathered up the axes and returned home with news of the event. This incident occurred about 1830. (Audubon, J.J.. and Bachman,J,: The Quadrupeds of North America. 3 volumes. New York, 1851 - 1854)

 

[Gary]

Poor buggers. :shake: A firestick beats an axe especially if it has a pig-sticker on it.

 

[mikelange]

Interesting, how many times I've read that there are NO verifiable instances of attacks on humans, by wolves, in North America. Yet, Europe's history abounds with such accounts, and common sense dictates that any carnivore, particularly a pack hunter, will hunt down and kill any animal it can, if it's hungry enough. Recently I've also read supposedly factual reports that attempt to "politically correct" the reputations of the Great White Shark and the Grizzly Bear. Either the people who write and report this drivel are morons, or figure we are.

Don't answer that, I already know it's the latter.

 

[Bearbait2]

Mr. Mongrel,
Unless memory fails, we had a documented Wolf attack up here just a couple of years ago.
Best Wishes

 

[Story]

Interesting, how many times I've read that there are NO verifiable instances of attacks on humans, by wolves, in North America.

Either the people who write and report this drivel are morons, or figure we are.

The posting from which I swiped the passage above dealt directly with that question, there being other incidences throughout the 19th and early 20th century that didnt' seem to 'fit' over here.

If those two poor fellows managed to kill three wolves between them, you have to wonder how many where in the pack to begin with.

And to answer your rhetorical question, I propose "both". :winking: Perhaps 21st century wolves will descend upon the Sierra Club neighborhoods some day.

 

[mikelange]

Reminds me of a joke that I'm sure everyone has heard.

The Sierra Club recently issued guidelines to its members who hike in grizzly country, that they should wear bells on their clothing to warn the bears of their presence, and thus avoid startling the animals; and carry pepper spray to repel them, in the event one becomes too curious or aggressive. Since then, the Forest Service has issued guidelines as to how to recognize grizzly bear droppings: they have little bells in them and smell like pepper.

That was the joke. What follows isn't.

Fairly recently, also, a female great white shark was captured alive and placed in a tank with other fish, including several species of shark, at (I believe) Sea World of Monterey, CA. After devouring most of the fish and some of the other sharks, and showing far too much interest in the humans who had to clean the tank and feed the swimmy critters, Ms. White was decided to "not play nice with the other kids" and released into the open ocean. Animal-rights activists were dismayed (no joke) about the amount of publicity this affair received, as it was expected to have negative effects on their efforts to persuade the general public that white sharks don't deserve their bad reputation for "not playing nice".

As Jeff Cooper said, once upon a time, it's a shame we can't resurrect the Tyrannosaurus Rex, and only a matter of time before, somehow, humans are blamed for the species' demise.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Uh, this just happened last month. They might have to rethink that theory on no known attacks by wolves on humans.

[url] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=man+killed+by+wolves[/url]

 

[mikelange]

It was in relation to an issue that we DON'T want to go into here -- or anywhere, ever, as far as I'm concerned -- but I recall an advocate for a particularly out-there segment of our population saying (as nearly as I can quote from memory): "I am a zealot, which by definition means that I am not swayed by mere facts."

The biggest flaw I see in Darwin's theory is that nature, obviously, quite often fails to weed out the weak and stupid, if you include weakness of mind in that category.

 

[Story]

Yup, I just stumbled on this [url] http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/dec05/379627.asp[/url]

There have been other wolf attacks, and in an area near where Carnegie was killed, Paquet said he interviewed a worker who was jogging to work in 2004 when he was attacked by a lone wolf.

The worker, who also was an artist and painted pictures of wolves, was in excellent physical condition - more than 6 feet tall and 220 pounds. Though he was able to get the wolf in a headlock and escape, he was "pretty traumatized, he was not a happy camper and (as he wrestled with the wolf) wondered where the rest of them were," Paquet said.

(and I thought this was pretty funny - Wolves with no Green cards)
Wolves were considered extirpated in Wisconsin from 1960 through about 1974, but then some animals ventured in from Minnesota without a state-sanctioned reintroduction plan.


For those who want to read the rest of the documented attacks by wolves, the original posting that I cited seemed to swipe from this site:
[url] http://www.usa4id.com/Documents/Documented Human Wolf Attacks.htm[/url]

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Feeding large carnivores and treating as gentle pets is not a wise decision, even more so by ill advised idiots.

 

[jbg]

The reason there is so much documentation of wolf attacks in Europe is the long and rich history of war on that continent. From pre-Roman times up to the 2nd World War, there has been ample opportunity for wolves to scavenge on the dead and dying. Think what feasts were offered during the Roman legions annihilation by Germanic tribes, Napoleon's retreat from Moscow, or the millions who dies on both side on the Eastern Front.

 

[guncobbler]

Not to mention the millions of deaths due to the Plague. Wolves must have had easy pickings. The other reason for few wolf attacks in North America is that there were not many humans here and not any beyond 20,000 years ago. GC

 

[olgriz]

At one of the fur trade rendezvous a trapper was bit by a rabid wolf. I forget dates and time, but the PC people never seem to mention rabies which is one heck of a good reason to pack heat in the woods. A rancher friend of mine had to get the shots because one of his cows was rabid and bit him. If a cow is going to bite you, what's a wolf or cougar going to do? Wolves are coming into Oregon from Idaho, and man are they protected. According to Oregon law, you have to gladly feed your livestock to wolves, and you get to cover the costs, and don't kill the wolf for eating $600 worth of beef either. Just be glad that you are able to help.

 

[whiskey]

There may or may not have been wolf attacks but they must be etremely rare. As a fur trade historian, I have accesss to a lot of material that most don't and I really cannot recall any first hand accounts of wolf attacks in the west, except for the rapid one, I believe that account comes from Larpentaur's, Fory Years a fur trader.
I live and work in Yellowstone park and no one who lives and works there has any concern about wolves. The fact is that wolf attacks are so rare that taking extra measures for saftey from them probably are not necessary.
People generally fear what they don't know. I feel perfect safe walking around the backcountry with grizzly bears and wolves around, but if i visit a big city I tend to be quite nervous when walking around. With research and experience, I think most folks don't fear wolves any more than coyotes or foxes.

 

[olgriz]

I know what you mean about them towns. People and cars coming at you from every direction tends to booger me a mite. I don't have any concerns about wolves, shucks there is only one in Oregon that we know of anyhow. My concern is it's just one more preditor that we are supposed to live with and be happy to feed for the PC folks. And they sure don't want to come up with any money to pay damages done by their favorite preditor, which ever one it might be. So I'm kind of thin skinned on those issues. I don't think wolves, cougars or coyotes are a big problem with people's lives, but they can affect the bank account drastically, speaking from experience. On these posts has anyone ever discussed rabies? I think that's one of those things that isn't common, but like rattle snakes, it's something we should be aware of. Any warm blooded critter can get it and spread it. Last case I heard of around here was from a bat. Perditors are -- according to the PC folks -- supposed to pick off the sick and weak animal. Well, a rabid animal ends up sick and weak. Coyote catches it, gets bit, bingo, you have an animal that's going to be on the rampage sooner or later -- from the way I understand it anyhow, and if you are around, sleeping or what ever, you very well could get bit. Anyhow, it's something to think about and maybe talk about, but like I said, it's rare enough that I don't worry about it. Rattle snakes are way more common, and I don't see many of those.

 

The biggest flaw I see in Darwin's theory is that nature, obviously, quite often fails to weed out the weak and stupid, if you include weakness of mind in that category.[/quote]

Darwins theorys apply to genera and species, not individuals. Nature rarely fails to weed out weak or stupid individuals. There aren't many weak or stupid deer where they are hunted.

 

[anchorsawy]

I have an excellent book written by Rien Poortvliet titled "Journey to the Ice Age", which mentions a string of wolf killings in Holland from 1810 to 1811. The victims were all children. He states in the book, ""While we may find the idea of "wolves in the wild" rather exciting, our fore-fathers couldn't find anything appealing in the presence of wolves here in our country".

 

[Bartek]

Poland is the country (following Russia and Romania), where is now most wolfs in Europe and i never heard about any human attacked by them Wolfs everywhere have very bad opinion Most people are affraid of them but i supouse only few can say something closer about wolfs People knows almost nothing about this fascinating animals.
The problem with wolfs here is the bands of wolfs attack every winter animals in farms and villages. About 20-30 animals every year are killed by wolfs. So it is not disturbing number too. More domestic animals are killed every year from drunk drivers.
Wolfs are active specilly in southern and south-eastern Poland, where people in wild mountains since centurys have flocks of sheeps. But wolfs are affraid of man and go away when they see someone coming. Wolfs are protected in Poland by low. Wolf hunting is forbidden since 1950s or 1960s, when wolfs were almost all out died. Now the population of them is one of largests in Europe :applause:
So our highlanders have another way to protect their sheeps. Podhale shepherds - special race of big dogs, created here in middle age exactely to protect sheeps from wolfs and bears. So wolfs are beck - anti-wolf dogs are beck too. But no one want to kill them, just keep them away from farms.
Wolfs are fascinating animals. They were maybe dangerous 300 - 400 years ago, when there was thousands of them here and extreme hunger forced all to attack humans.

http://www.wolf.wild.art.pl/

best regards
bartek

 

[Bartek]

Poland is the country (following Russia and Romania), where is now most wolfs in Europe and i never heard about any human attacked by them Wolfs everywhere have very bad opinion Most people are affraid of them but i supouse only few can say something closer about wolfs People knows almost nothing about this fascinating animals.
The problem with wolfs here is the bands of wolfs attack every winter animals in farms and villages. About 20-30 animals every year are killed by wolfs. So it is not disturbing number too. More domestic animals are killed every year from drunk drivers.
Wolfs are active specilly in southern and south-eastern Poland, where people in wild mountains since centurys have flocks of sheeps. But wolfs are affraid of man and go away when they see someone coming. Wolfs are protected in Poland by low. Wolf hunting is forbidden since 1950s or 1960s, when wolfs were almost all out died. Now the population of them is one of largests in Europe :applause:
So our highlanders have another way to protect their sheeps. Podhale shepherds - special race of big dogs, created here in middle age exactely to protect sheeps from wolfs and bears. So wolfs are beck - anti-wolf dogs are beck too. But no one want to kill them, just keep them away from farms.
Wolfs are fascinating animals. They were maybe dangerous 300 - 400 years ago, when there was thousands of them here and extreme hunger forced all to attack humans.

http://www.wolf.wild.art.pl/

best regards
bartek