Opinions on the best MZ hunt in the lower 48?

[bigbore442001]

I was thinking about doing something different this year if finances and circumstances allow for it to occur. Like many hunters the muzzleloading season for deer is generally after the bow and general gun seasons. So you have less game and whatever survives is more spooked.

I know in my home state of Massachusetts, the muzzleloading season is after the six week bow and two week gun so for eight weeks deer have been pursued. Maine is in the same situation. New Hampshire is different in the fact that the season is before the general gun but as a rule the success rate is low. Rhode Island is before the general gun season and the success rate is a high of 20 percent( That is high for New England) but your best chances are on private land which is very difficult to access in the smallest state in the Union.

Now I am pretty open minded so I would like some suggestions. What state or special muzzleloading hunt that has a high success rate would you recommend? Are there special hunts that are for a lack of a better term, open secrets? Thanks for any replies.

 

[rabjr]

Umm....no comment! :grin:

 

[luieb45]

Why don't you just use your muzzleloader during an open firearms season? Illinois like you probably know has great deer hunting, and Iowa also has very good deer hunting. But our muzzy seasons are a little later and usually in wet, nasty weather with bad deer movement. However our opening gun season is usually pretty dang good so I just use my muzzleloader during regular gun season because I'm not too fond of shotguns with slugs becasue no matter what they kick terribly and for the most part are an akward gun to shoot.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I think the best hunt is the one you are doing today.

Really, you can hunt some varmints 365 days a year with some kind of MLer. Here in Illinois, Coyote are on tap all year long. Shotgun or rifle. We have 3 species of birds- English Sparrow, pigeons, and starlings that are considered "pests" and can be shot all year round. Most states have extensive small game seasons, so that should not be missed. Squirrels, Rabbits, groundhogs, and a host of other critters are "good eats".

Better, they are a good excuse to be in the fields and woods where you can also scout territory for deer, turkey, and larger game.

Feral hogs have joined the lists of pest animals in a large number of states- and because of the damage they do, farmers tend to welcome help in getting rid of them.;

Of course, there are state and federally regulated hunting seasons for a wide variety of game birds, from doves to Canada Geese.

It helps if you think of all the blessings you have, rather than how few blessings you see. :hmm: :wink:

 

[1911nutjob]

I think the best hunt is the one you are doing today.

Really, you can hunt some varmints 365 days a year with some kind of MLer. Here in Illinois, Coyote are on tap all year long. Shotgun or rifle. We have 3 species of birds- English Sparrow, pigeons, and starlings that are considered "pests" and can be shot all year round. Most states have extensive small game seasons, so that should not be missed. Squirrels, Rabbits, groundhogs, and a host of other critters are "good eats".

Better, they are a good excuse to be in the fields and woods where you can also scout territory for deer, turkey, and larger game.

Feral hogs have joined the lists of pest animals in a large number of states- and because of the damage they do, farmers tend to welcome help in getting rid of them.;

Of course, there are state and federally regulated hunting seasons for a wide variety of game birds, from doves to Canada Geese.

It helps if you think of all the blessings you have, rather than how few blessings you see. :hmm: :wink:

Ditto about what was said on hogs. Here in neighboring IN, they are also considered a pest and may be taken year-round without permit according to my latest DNR manual and to my knowledge without firearm restrictions. I'm planning on pursuing a few with the ROA myself.

 

[bigbore442001]

Umm....no comment! :grin:

You have an ace in the hole, so to speak. Rhode Island is probably the best state out of the six New England states to hunt deer with the muzzleloader. The season starts right during the rut. Even though I married a RI girl I can't seem to break the permission barrier in my neck of the woods. I can hunt state and public land but I did that once.

Around New Years I filled out a survey for Connecticut. They asked a question if you would support an early primitive muzzleloading season? Basically sidelocks and round balls. I voted yes. I would love to hunt my spots with my TC Hawken instead of the bow for a week in October. It is hard to tell whether that will happen or not. Time will tell.

Dad and I were talking yesterday afternoon and he commented that when we go to the sportsmans show we'll get information and see what we come up with as far as ideas are concerned.

 

[roundball]

Are you saying its against the law for you to use a ML during regular firearms season?

 

[bigbore442001]

Sure. I can hunt with a muzzleloader during the shotgun but the overall hunter success during Massachusetts shotgun is around 12 percent at best.

 

[roundball]

Sure. I can hunt with a muzzleloader during the shotgun but the overall hunter success during Massachusetts shotgun is around 12 percent at best.

I'm confused, don't follow that connection...percentages are a whole different discussion. Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, it was about wanting to hunt somewhere else with your ML because of 6 weeks bow and 2 weeks gun before your ML season starts there.
( "...in my home state of Massachusetts, the muzzleloading season is after the six week bow and two week gun so for eight weeks deer have been pursued..." )

In asking if you could hunt your ML during regular gun season you replied about shotguns...if your reply about 'shotguns' means that your regular gun season is shotguns (CF rifles not allowed) and hunter success is only 12%...then is the issue more a case of low hunter success on pubic land regardless of what firearm is used...too many hunters, not enough deer, etc ?

PS: While 12% might sound low...it would be interesting to know what hunter success percentages there are on public land in other states...12% might not be all that far off on public land in other states too, dunno.

If you have the time and money to travel and hunt somewhere else, it might be best to actually hook up with a place that caters to out of state hunters and puts them on game for a fee...the down side there is that its practically nothing about 'hunting'...it basically just shooting if/when a deer shows up at a bait pile at a known fixed distance, etc.

 

[luieb45]

I wouldn't make a generalization that all outfitters bait deer and make shooting big deer easy. But for the poster I would strongly recommend an outfitter. Here's the pluses of having an outfitter:

1)they will usually have a decent place for you to stay
2)they know the area well and its deer herds
3) the land you'll hunt on will usually be fairly well managed having a healthy deer herd with mature bucks (didn't say big, said mature)

All of this is about West Central IL though, no idea about other places. And yes baiting is illegal here so you don't have to worry about that. I just don't think it would be worth the airfare/gas money to take a trip some place to hunt public land because the hunting on public land is usually pretty marginal.

 

[roundball]

I wouldn't make a generalization that all outfitters bait deer and make shooting big deer easy.

If they don't they wouldn't be in business. Generally speaking if you contract hire some outfitter who is in the business to put out of state hunters on game, they spend all year long attracting/feeding, literally "training" game to show up in front of the very stands where they will place their out of state hunters.

They wouldn't stay in business if their clients paid out all the big money for the trips and guide service but then didn't have opportunities to score...deer, bear, etc...doesn't matter...if they're in that business they have to be assured that the game will be there when the clients are.

Conversely, if you're just talking about finding somebody who will charge you $1000 to show up and hunt their land for 3-4 days, they're not an 'outfitter'...they're just a landowner.

 

[Spikebuck]

If Bigbore is interested in using an outfitter and is concerned about baiting, he should just ask any prospective outfitter he is researching if any baiting is occurring.

On privately managed acreages of considerable size and limted hunting, it's entirely possible to have a substantial number of quality, mature bucks that certainly makes it "easier" than unmanaged properties. In addition, those outfitters can use trail cameras to better understand deer movements (in addition to good old-fashioned scouting) and increase the odds of putting a client on a good stand. If an outfitter is willing to guarantee an animal, I'd be wary that it's a legitmate "hunt."

While baiting is certainly common in some states, it's completely illegal in others.

 

[Richard J.]

I wouldnt worry about the percentages. For example Pennsylvania has had a primitive season for many years. The first year very few were killed. Now there is a large quanity of people with a muzzleloading license. A very large percentage of these have already killed there deer before the primitive season begins. So a percentage of say 20 percent would be a large number because most of the hunters are already tagged out. We hunt with flintlocks in all gun seasons witch is allowed in most states. Percentages dont kill deer, good hunters do. Just check the laws in the state you plan on hunting. I hunt in many states and there are some really werid laws out there. So Forget the percentage and just enjoy the hunt. That is the fun part. Getting a deer is just a bonus.

RJ

 

[longcruise]

If they don't they wouldn't be in business.

Baiting is illegal here in CO. Actually, even putting feed out for deer by well meaning but uninformed non-hunters is illegal as well. There are probably a few outfitters who do it, but it's probably rare.

CO deer and elk ML hunts are the perfect answer to someone who wants to hunt ahead of the rifle hunters. Opens the second saturday in Sept and runs for nine days. Bow season is on concurrently but has not been an issue for me.

It's really quite easy for a non-res to make a DIY ml hunt here. The key is to do a bit of research in advance. Virtually every single game management unit that has deer and elk hunting licenses available can be productive if planning is done carefully in advance.

OTOH, nothing is a sure thing!

 

[roundball]

While baiting is certainly common in some states, it's completely illegal in others.

The way around that is "food plots"

 

[roundball]

If they don't they wouldn't be in business.

Baiting is illegal here in CO.

The way around that is "food plots".

 

[luieb45]

I don't know how things work down there in North Carolina but that ain't how they work around here. Yea, outfitters put up trail cams to track the deer on the property and monitor them. Yea, they use food plots which there is nothing wrong with because it provides more forage for wildlife and gives them more reason to stay on the property. They just put their hunters in the best spot to give them oppurtunity to kill a quality deer.

 

[BillinOregon]

Muzzle loader hunters actually have it pretty good here in western Oregon. Their hunt follows the early archery and rifle seasons, but falls during the rut, when our super-wary blacktails are most vulnerable. Some of the biggest blacktails on record have been taken with black powder here.

 

[Spikebuck]

CO deer and elk ML hunts are the perfect answer to someone who wants to hunt ahead of the rifle hunters. Opens the second saturday in Sept and runs for nine days.

That early elk ML hunt would be a dandy. If I recall correctly, however, one had better plan WELL in advance because I think for non-residents (maybe residents too) that's pretty much an "apply and draw" situation unless one plans to hunt on a private ranch in the "Ranching for Wildlife" program in which case they should have a few grand available to spend on the hunt.

Regarding Roundball's comment on Food Plots...I'm sure we could have a very, very lively discussion on that one (Food Plots = Baiting). Probably for another thread another time. :v

 

[longcruise]

The way around that is "food plots".

from what I see and read about other states, especially the midwest and south, food plots are a pretty popular technique. Not sure where I would fall on the food plots vs baiting debate, but don't see it as a pure baiting situation.

In the eastern half of CO whitetails are prevalent. The vast majority of land in the eastern half is private. It is either open sage or grassland (very poor quality) or riparian. Riparian areas are mostly tree's with cottonwoods and are often very brushy. They hold a lot of whitetails, but food plots just won't work here because the fields bordering the riverside are usually feeder corn or sugar beets. Way too much of it to concentrate deer in a given area.

The whitetails and mulies living in the sage grasslands probably could be baited (illegal), but food plots in that environment just don't grow. The only thing that will grow out there without irrigation is winter wheat, and that is a precarious crop. Farmers who must irrigate are not interested in wasting their resources on "food plots". Everything they grow is a food plot as far as the deer are concerned, but when the food plots consist of 40 to 160 acres with many more like it all up and down the river, their is no single magnet to draw deer. And, in the end, I don't know of a single farmer in eastern co who is in the outfitting business.

Western side of the state is mostly public and is either timber, sage lands or mountain valleys with mixed meadows. The only crops you will find there are hay. Elk raiding haystacks in midwinter is a big problem. Huge fences are erected around them keep the elk from getting too it. By the time elk are eyeing haystacks as a food source, the hunting seasons are finished.

Moving further west in the state, agriculture consists mainly of fruit growing. Apples and peaches. The last thing a fruit grower will do is try to attract more deer to their orchards and propery. Deer are incredibly destructive to orchards and the losses sustained by encouraging deer by treating an orchard as a "food plot" would never be made up by charging trespass fees to shoot a few deer.

Trying to paint a picture here of how things can differ from one region of the country to the next. I suppose a food plot in North Carolina could be considered baiting. They certainly do outright baiting in TX, with auto feeders and all. I would say that texas outfitters absolutely sustain their business through baiting.

It just is not the case everywhere.