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I KNOW this is not the right thread for this discussion, so bite me.

Dave, I'd be mighty interested in what you're shootin', your load, and range. It's not the group I'm havin' trouble with. It's the handwriting.
Sure, no problem. I shoot competition with the North South Skirmish Association. We're a competition shooting org that centers around American Civil War arms. We compete with pretty much anything that went back during the Late Unpleasantness. I have more than a couple guns for several classes of competition- Smoothbore, Musket, Carbine, Revolver. The groups I generally post are from one of my competition muskets. In the N-SSA, if you want to have a prayer of being competitive, you have to engage in load development and research and that means extensive testing into what works with your guns. As such, I've tested powders, caps, lubes, bullet designs, and sizing. In short, all the variables I can control within the rules of competition. I do my base testing at 50yd on a bench and bench method is a huge part of being consistent. Since our competition is all offhand, knowing how your rifle will recoil and where the point of impact is from the offhand position is extremely important. I use two types of sights but mainly shoot my P58 Enfield in competition. I sometimes shoot the 62 Colt but since the Colt has aperture sights, the "fog of war" on the range from shooting can make sighting uhmm, problematic, not so much with post n notch.

The basics of shooting minies aren't rocket science and we've covered them more than once- pure lead minies sized to .001 under measured bore size, real high quality black powder (often 3f but sometimes 2f), quality caps (reenactment caps are for blanks and not conducive to accuracy) and right lube applied the right way (I use a beeswax/lard/coconut oil/lanolin mix for most loads)

So here's a couple pix of some outstanding loads I've found-

Load data is in the pic, rifle is a 1st gen P58 Birmingham Parker Hale. Sights are post n notch. And yes, the flyer is the first shot, the next four are in that one hole. You will NEVER get this kind of accuracy and precision without paying close attention to the details and using methodical testing.
phshazam.jpg


Different musket, different bullet, different load. Musket is an 1862 Colt repop with aperture sights. Bullet is a Moose International Minie. Load data is in the pix, caps were RWS. The Colt doesn't seem to "throw" the first shot high. This group is a great example of having a too large flash channel. The flyer is a direct result of a broken nipple. There was a run of nipples that were heat treated incorrectly and they tend to shatter leaving a fairly large hole to the flash channel.
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Korean made "Zouave". I think it'll shoot just fine with this load
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This is a group shot offhand, rapid fire at 50yd from one of the "Zouaves" we use when teaching muzzleloading with the Scouts. Load is RCBS Hogdon sized .579, 45g 3f Scheutzen, Scheutzen caps, beeswax/lard. String was fired offhand, loading from the cartridge box, no wiping, just load, aim fire, repeat quickly.
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But to the original post, again, there are multiple threads on this stuff, "Search" is your friend. It's how I've stumbled onto quite a bit of very interesting information in my search for a good load for my guns. The information was a starting point, then consistent experimentation, observe, RECORD RESULTS, alter ONE variable, repeat. This method works in any muzzleloading or centerfire arm, only the details change. There's no rocket science, nor are there any real shortcuts.
 
Graf sells a lot more than just caps. Browse the site. Probably put together a minimum order easily.
They sure do! @SOLANCO makes a good point. You can probably find all you need at Graf’s to start shooting your black powder guns, as well as cleaning and maintaining them. Balls, bullets, lube, patches, solvent, rods and jags… all sorts of stuff. I don’t mean to sound like a shill, but they are a good outfit to deal with. We see a lot of complaints about dealers here on the forum, and I think it’s good to balance this with positive reports concerning the “good” ones.

Notchy Bob
 
Tin Sandwich, if you happen to drive through west Tennessee, I would be happy to give you a tin of caps. Dixie gunworks also has them. I also have a couple of the regular live fire tins I bought at a rummage sale.
 

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Tin Sandwich, if you happen to drive through west Tennessee, I would be happy to give you a tin of caps. Dixie gunworks also has them. I also have a couple of the regular live fire tins I bought at a rummage sale.
CCI has noticed the issue with "Reenactor" caps and now packages the same garbage this way. They should get sued for false advertising
 
I have a selection of CCI musket caps with the same number , some marked re-enactment and some are not.
My skills are not as good as dave so it doesn’t matter.
 
I have a selection of CCI musket caps with the same number , some marked re-enactment and some are not.
My skills are not as good as dave so it doesn’t matter.
Forgive what might be a silly question, but what is the difference between a re-enactor cap and a normal one? Surely the same cap will ignite the powder charge whether there is a bullet on top of it or not?
 
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Probably no difference at all, maybe just a marketing ploy, think about it if one marked reenactor will set off a blank powder charge why would it not set off a regular charge. My bet is it's a slap in the face to those who shoot the NSSA matches, they refer to themselves as not reenactors but skirmishers. And we all know them skirmishers are the holy grail to civil war weapons.
 
Forgive what might be a silly question, but what is the difference between a re-enactor cap and a normal one? Surely the same cap will ignite the powder charge whether there is a bullet on top of it or not?
The CCI reenactor caps and those they currently hawk to the unsuspecting or uncaring, are very weak caps. Yes, they will ignite a charge, NO they aren't the ticket for any kind of accuracy work. How can this be a problem you ask. Well, the weak caps have a much lower pressure curve than the standard ones meaning your powder isn't going to achieve the same results. Accuracy is a function of consistency. Inconsistent ignition is a shortcut to inaccuracy. And we haven't covered percussion Sharps yet. Want to get really frustrated? Try them in a Sharps.

The ONLY reason these even exist is some bonehead reenactor, probably with a drilled out nipple and a 100gr blank, had one spit fragments into his eye and rather than own up to his incompetency/stupidity, sued CCI who promptly caved, paid out, and started making crap musket caps suitable only for weak blanks. As a former Civil War reenactor, I can attest to seeing the aforementioned behaviour by some. I personally know of some who regularly shot 100+gr charges in their muskets cuz "they made a better bang". I know of others who, rather than properly maintain their arms, drilled out the nipples and flash channels for "better ignition". So the "hold my beer" crowd has dictated to a major company through a lawsuit how to mitigate personal stupidity into a corporate responsibility. So pardon my rampant skepticism on the "expertise" of a reenactor when it comes to firearms.
 
Probably no difference at all, maybe just a marketing ploy, think about it if one marked reenactor will set off a blank powder charge why would it not set off a regular charge. My bet is it's a slap in the face to those who shoot the NSSA matches, they refer to themselves as not reenactors but skirmishers. And we all know them skirmishers are the holy grail to civil war weapons.
Want to shoot offhand for money?? You bring your pyrodex and CCI caps and I'll shoot a "Zouave" repop made in the far east with Swiss and RWS.

IMG_20210509_155842.jpg
 
Want to shoot offhand for money?? You bring your pyrodex and CCI caps and I'll shoot a "Zouave" repop made in the far east with Swiss and RWS.

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Sure but it won't be no 50 yards with a modified gun, and reduced loads. Also I have never and never will shoot the subs. Say lets start at the 400 yard mark just for warm ups, I will bring the sharps.
 
Sure but it won't be no 50 yards with a modified gun, and reduced loads. Also I have never and never will shoot the subs. Say lets start at the 400 yard mark just for warm ups, I will bring the sharps.
Scared of offhand at 50yd with iron sights against an old man with a bone stock Parker Hale? I'll even make it easier and you can shoot against one of my buddies who wears glasses and shoots an original 150yo Springfield with issue sights. Shooting from a rest is for tenderfoots.
 
Scared of offhand at 50yd with iron sights against an old man with a bone stock Parker Hale? I'll even make it easier and you can shoot against one of my buddies who wears glasses and shoots an original 150yo Springfield with issue sights. Shooting from a rest is for tenderfoots.
Wow, a urinating contest. Well lads, my feet are tender. I shoot off a rest when I need to. 😆😂

Pete
 
Save your glory thoughts for your hero book, been to a NSSA shoot actually in Va. Not impressed If I was going to shoot against you, I after thinking about it a bit would use a stock 58 Remington. What I saw was a bunch of highly modified period original and re-production guns shooting nowhere near civil war regulation loadings bye a bunch of yahoos dressed in polyester. I stand bye my statement about the caps. 50 yards is sling shot distance.
 
The legend is that a Civil War reenactor caught a cap fragment in his eye, and sued CCI. When the dust settled, they came out with these Reenactor caps which have a weaker priming charge and reduced risk for fragmentation.

I think of the CCI Reenactor caps as part of a system. Reenactors who only shoot blanks typically have the flash holes in the nipples drilled out to about .080". I believe the flash hole for live fire (with bullets) should normally be between .026" and .036", which prevents excessive blowback. I believe that oversized flash hole may compensate somewhat for the weakened priming charge.

I had a M1842 musket defarbed some years ago. The gunsmith did a great job. However, the first time I shot it, the hammer blew back to full cock, which I thought was odd. I reloaded, and when I was capping I happened to notice the nipple was full of powder! I pulled the nipple and found the gunsmith had bored out the flash hole as part of the defarb job, but did not mention it to me. Fortunately, I had a spare nipple.

As noted previously, the Reenactor caps work for live fire if you're happy to just shoot on the local range for fun, which is pretty much what I do these days. However, it is generally accepted that primers and caps can affect the accuracy of a rifle. Mike Venturino always recommends magnum primers for black powder cartridge, and @dave951 has told us many times that the caps make a recognizable difference in the accuracy of his skirmishing rifles. He is waaay out of my league!

So I would suggest that if Reenactor caps are all you can find, they ought to light up your powder if you keep your flash channel clear. If you can afford or find better caps, something like RWS might be a better choice.

Notchy Bob
 
Save your glory thoughts for your hero book, been to a NSSA shoot actually in Va. Not impressed If I was going to shoot against you, I after thinking about it a bit would use a stock 58 Remington. What I saw was a bunch of highly modified period original and re-production guns shooting nowhere near civil war regulation loadings bye a bunch of yahoos dressed in polyester. I stand bye my statement about the caps. 50 yards is sling shot distance.
Modified how exactly? Do you even know what you're looking at? Polyester? Nobody will ever mistake an N-SSA match for an "authentic" reenactment, BUT there are those of us (me included) who were serious, stitch counting reenactors. Your comment shows a serious lack of understanding of shooting sports and what constitutes authenticity. So 50yd is "sling shot" distance? Maybe, but what about Olympic air rifle at 10m? That not manly enough? Or are you too feeble to stand up, shoulder a rifle and shoot offhand?
 
Yes, you are correct was a reenactor for close to 30 years so probably don't know much about that aspect, Raised and shooting, hunting since about 6-7 years old probably don't know much about that either, 8 years in the Marine Corps seems to me somewhere in there done a bit of shooting both in a good place and some not so good places, and I think instructing basic marksmanship for the rifle and pistol. Oh, the pistol thing was ranking Marine Corps officers. Was scouted for Marine Corps sniper recon position but I shot left-handed so a no go there was really looking forward to that. 26 years in law enforcement 15 of those was firearms instructor for revolver, semi auto pistol counter sniper rifle and shotgun probably don't know much there 12 years as a lead squad member on my agencies weapons plt reactionary operations force, SOG or special operations group also, Finished out that aspect as the range commander and one of the top ranked instructors in the state, match pistol, revolver shooter worked my way to master class, All I know is the hype of I am a NSSA shooter is exactly what I stated a bunch of Yahoos breaking tiles or plates at minor distances, that has nothing to do with the actual ability to efficiently utilize those period weapons to their full potential. Read a few of the posts regarding the different modifications to the weapons that are shot at those cracker jack matches I forgot if I have too, I can shoot standing on my head in a bucket of **** in a 25 MPH cross wind. Which is exactly where I leave you and your make believe shooting skills.
 
So pardon my rampant skepticism on the "expertise" of a reenactor when it comes to firearms.
No, the stupidity there is well described. Are the caps advertised as re enactor caps or do you only know you've got them when your gun doesn't work properly? When I was a re enactor, I loaded my Parker Hale Enfield with about 60 grains and NEVER tampered with the nipple or flash channel. I wish I still had that PH, btw. I sold it when I left re enactment in the late 90's, and only got back into this about two and a half years ago.
 
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