Options for Muzzleloader Storage

[roundball]

I've now sold all T/C Hawkens accumulated during the past 18 years except one .28ga Flintlock that I'm keeping for the occasional skeet target. In their place I've pulled together a few good long guns from TVM.

Ideally I'd like to protect them from fire & theft, but not even sure anybody makes a fireproof safe for long guns and doubt I'd pay that kind of money if they did...but I'd at least like to protect them from theft.

I'm thinking along the lines of some kind of heavy sturdy storage locker that could be bolted to wall studs, or the floor, etc. Google shows commercial companies that make school lockers...maybe add a few hasps/padlocks, bolt it in place, etc.

But before I head down that road, thought I'd toss out the subject to see if anyone already knew of a good strong storage locker made for long guns, or that's suitable for long guns?

 

[PreserveFreedom]

The folded sheet metal boxes that are made by companies like Stack On will not stop a thief. They are pretty much only good for keeping your kids out of your stuff. Personally, I have a 5 foot tall safe from Zanotti Armor. What's nice about their safes is that they are shipped to you in several pieces and you can put it together yourself. That saves you from paying safe movers. Since they do come in pieces they are not fire resistant. I think mine cost around $1500 shipped a few years ago. They also offer a veteran's discount. At the time I got mine they had a 6 month waiting list.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I am a firm beliver that "out of sight is out of mind". Concealed storage spaces can be made fire proof with fiberglass (I used to use asbestas but it is a no no now days )It will cost you far less to make a false back to a closet and a hidden door than to buy a safe!

 

[RADeO]

National Security Safes in Utah makes a 6-foot tall safe which should be big enough for any longrifle, fowler, or even a punt gun if you happen to run across one. They also provide fire-resistant liners at extra cost. I suppose a body could buy a non-fire-resistant safe and line it themselves with 2 or 3 layers of 5/8" sheetrock secured with contact adhesive. Don't know how practical that would be. Just a thought.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Depends on your budget. My safe is a Grizzly and I am convinced it is theft proof to all but the best equiped crook with lots of time avaiable. It is not fire resistant, sadly. It will not take my good longrifle upright. That has to lean aross the front of the others. No way can I get my Brown Bess inside. But it holds all my other guns and valuables. To get something that will take long-longguns, only the high priced varities will work. My budget won't handle that. I would check out the Grizzly offerings.

 

[roundball]

Another thought...we've seen posts over the years where fire fighters have said that after a house fire, the contents of a refrigerator or freezer are still cool.

Turns out one the large chest freezers is 73" long (Frigidaire FGCH25M8LW)...I only need 63-64" inches so that would certainly work.
New price is only about $600 compared to a real safe...and a reconditioned, or clean used one would be even less.
Since it’s so large I could also store a couple other guns and my blackpowder inside as well.
It weighs 225lbs empty, and would easily hit 350lbs or more after I loaded it so nobody could just walk off with it.

Another plus is that its flat top is exactly the same size as a 6' utility table I have sitting in the middle of a room I use for my hobby work...could just set the freezer in that spot, add a couple lock hasps, drape the big padded mover's quilt over it I currently have over the utility table, and be done with it.

An added benefit is that since I'm tall, it would be that the freezer’s top is 6" higher than the current cheap utility table top I use, raising my work area up to a better level too...this just might be worth looking into...

 

[majg1234]

Kinda gave all that the same thought process,but when you consider the cost of replacement of even a couple of TVM's a well built safe is (in my opinion) the only way to go problem is even a tall one may not be tall enough,Intrigued by your idea about a freezer though,I wonder if the fact that it may have started out cold to begin with is why it stayed cool in a house fire :hmm:

 

[123.DieselBenz]

Insulation that won't melt is key ... By the end of this week, I should have my new Brown Safe ... It it ain't cheap!

 

[roundball]

"...Intrigued by your idea about a freezer though,I wonder if the fact that it may have started out cold to begin with is why it stayed cool in a house fire..."

I'm sure that's the case...but I took the main points to be that the freezer contents didn't thaw, and didn't burn up...seems like freezers are extremely well insulated.

I suspect if my house burned down and my Flintlocks were destroyed by fire that would hurt, but it would probably be the least impact on us of anything. We'd probable have everything on hold for a couple years recovering from the total loss of everything the house while we got our lives back in order.
By the time I'd be ready to focus on shooting/hunting again I could easily have a couple replacements built but at the age I'd be then I'm not even sure I'd do that...could just buy one from TOW and be done with it.

So my greater concern is theft, particularly in our economy...and if this approach would be a pretty fair deterrent it would certainly be a quick, easy, far less costly approach to at least get some protection in place for them.

Anyhow, all good food for thought...and some suggestions usually trigger other suggestions

 

[BrownBear]

My biggest fear about long term storage in freezers (or safes for that matter) is dead air. In our moist climate it's a death knell for good steel without regular maintenance. Dessicant packs and excellent rust proofing help, but regular inspection for rust will be mandatory. Air circulation is good if you can manage it, but at the expense of fire proofing.

Without provision for fire proofing, permanently mounted safes or concealment are best around here. I put my safes into an area that I was going to wall off for a storage room, then built the wall and doorway too narrow to pass the safes. Then I bolted the safes to the wall and floor.

I'm currently designing a house to build on our place in the Southwest, including a basement. That will have a vault room with cement walls and a roll-down steel security door. Bring your cutting torch or jackhammer, because that will be the only means of unauthorized entry.

 

[crockett]

I like to go cheap whenever possible. If you have a basement- what about a masonry enclosure with adequate locks- might work.

 

[leslie]

I went through this many years ago and after discussion with the local Fire and Police it dawned on me that we had much more in the home than my guns that needed protection and that gun safes are not all that safe.We opted for a good alarm system and special riders on our homeowners insurance to cover the the valuable items.Pictures were taken and stored in a safe deposit box along with all valuable documents.There was a sizeable deduction in the cost of the insurance because of the alarm system.One caveat be very careful in picking a home alarm vendor-installer some of these guys are real crooks.We live in a small town where the police take this stuff seriously and theft of a chain saw out of an open bed pickup is a major crime.In a large city I am told the Police don't seem to pay much attention to alarms with everything else that is going on.The goal here is to reduce the financial impact of a fire or robbery since i believe there really is no effective security against a determined thief unless you are home with deterrent in hand.

 

[paulvallandigham]

For fire protection, you want the safe or storage box( refrigerator/freezer) to be located in the lowest portion of your house/home. If you have a DRY basement, its an idea location. HEAT RISES. Cool air goes DOWN. Use it.

You can beef up the security of a chest style freezer for a lot small amount of money than what it will cost to buy a large Safe. You can improve the insulation in the walls of a freezer using either styrofoam, or some of the new foam insulation that comes in spray cans. There are fire resistant( High temperature melting points) foams out there for this purpose.

The hinges on the typical chest freezer can use some additional "hardening". The nice thing is that these hinges are usually on the back side of the box. If you bolt the box to the floor, and, possibly to a wall, those hinges become virtually inaccessible to an intruder.

As to locks, those cylinder style locks, fixed to the box so that you have to insert the key from UNDER a lip are the best styles to use. It would not take too much to have a steel "LIP" welded to the front and sides of the lid of the chest, adding weight, and allowing the installation of such a lock by a competent locksmith. Cylinder locks are among the most difficult locks to " pick" requiring a special tool to do so. When someone has to be a contortionist to even gain access to the lock to work on it, you level of security goes up even more. Ask the locksmith how he would deter some thief from gaining easy access to such a lock.

The weak spot is the thin metal that encases a freezer. A hammer and chisel can make short- if noisy- work of entry. Any acetylene torch will cut right through this sheet steel like a hot knife through butter. Bolting( or welding) a thin sheet of hardened steel plate to the top and sides will give further protection, without a terrible increase in total weight. Layering soft aluminum and steel plate will increase the protection, and also keep the weight down.

Covering this metal top with wood, so that any use of a torch would create a smokey fire that will gag the thieves, and alert neighbors, or trip fire alarms adds to security. Only people who know its a gun safe, and then probably know what guns you keep in there, would bother to try to break in.

MLers' no matter how much we pay for them, simply are NOT big sellers on the black Market. They are too easy to identify, and the number of potential buyers are rather limited. When is the last time you heard of some thug using any flintlock to pull an Armed Robbery???

Thieves steal guns because they can be converted to good cash quickly so they can feed a drug habit. The biggest buyers of stolen gun are other criminals. Flintlocks simply are not on their radar. Neither are suppository guns that are broken down with key parts stored elsewhere. NO fence is going to give them a dime for some "gun parts".

I rest my case.

 

[roundball]

My biggest fear about long term storage in freezers (or safes for that matter) is dead air. In our moist climate it's a death knell for good steel without regular maintenance. Dessicant packs and excellent rust proofing help, but regular inspection for rust will be mandatory. Air circulation is good if you can manage it, but at the expense of fire proofing.

That's the main drawback I thought about with a freezer being sealed / air tight. With basic theft deterrent being the goal my initial thinking had been some sort of heavy metal commercial storage locker affair, which normally has some sort of venting, then I was reminded about the freezer idea...thought I'd explore it a bit...but the potential for rust would have to be dealt with.

It might be that a cord routing hole & hardware for one of those warm heat rods made for safes could easily be installed...run it off a light switch in plain view that had a bright, highly visible LED built in showing it was "ON"....would need to research it.

 

[majg1234]

Agreed paul and with some additional good points as usual,I guess my real problem is I have several other firearms besides my flinters and as a result am out of room for the ML's,as RB said if the House burnt down other things would be more important....But i don't want to loose things I've collected for years.As charlie said a good alarm and a good LEO response is always good.I happen to live in a small town and they too take ANY thefts very seriously.....one of the LEO's of this small town lives just down the road from me he's a great guy to boot.The freezer with modifications suggested sounds more interesting all the time :grin: In fact just this weekend I was pricing an additional safe

 

[roundball]

Not far fetched but no basement...

 

[tiger955]

I once lived in a house that was pretty isolated and was worried about someone breaking in while I was at work. I took an old water heater, gutted it, and built a nice rack inside to hold my nicer long guns. I sat it in the corner of the garage with some junk piled next to it and would just lift off the cover to get a rifle out.
I was broken into twice and nobody messed with the water heater. Not fireproof though.

 

[roundball]

"...i believe there really is no effective security against a determined thief..."

We have insurance, photos, alarm system, etc...and given access and enough time nothing is going to stop a determined thief.
I'm just looking for another layer of protection against a lowlife who breaks in for 3-4 minutes and is gone, not James Bond type bad guys...LOL

If they saw a couple gun cases in a corner or up on a shelf they'd snatch them and run...wouldn't stand there wasting time opening cases, looking to see what's inside, trying to figure how much they might get for them...they'd just figure they'd scored something they could hock and be gone.

 

[roundball]

I took an old water heater, gutted it, and built a nice rack inside to hold my nicer long guns. I sat it in the corner of the garage with some junk piled next to it and would just lift off the cover to get a rifle out.

Very interesting...hiding in plain sight

 

[Vaino]

Why not build a concealed gunroom? You don't have a basement but an underground "storm cellar" or "bomb shelter" w/ hidden access would not only protect your guns but any other valuable items from theft or fire. A moisture seal would eliminate "dampness" and you could even install a comfortable chair, sit back and enjoy a drink or two while admiring your flintlocks. If this isn't suitable, an alarm system would be my 2nd choice.....Fred