Origin of a gun with special features

[Anders L]

I have borrowed a gun recently, Im interested to know if any of you have any clues of its origin. I´m collecting nordic hunting weapons and I presume that this one is not from this area.

It has been used in Sweden by a english hunter for bear hunting around 1830-1850. I have more information on that historical context but I´m interested in finding out more about the gun itself.

It has good target properties with double adjustable hairtrigger, adable sights and adjustable sight. The stock have seen a lot of action and the stock has a period repair.

It has also a wierd screw-thing on the butstock. Any clues on that? :idunno: I guess is that gun has been mounted on a sled for seal hunts.

There are no visible markings, perhaps there are some under the barrel. The lock is engraved with a sun and a moon and I think that the lock is a old flintlock and that the lockplate has been resized and converted.

Is it german? Belgian? British?

Any help is welcome. :grin:

Pics:
Gun http://kurage.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/p1030074.jpg

Buttstock http://kurage.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/p1030081.jpg

Muzzle http://kurage.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/p1030083.jpg

Triggerguard http://kurage.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/p1030084.jpg

The lock http://kurage.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/p1030076.jpg

Special screw thing http://kurage.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/p1030080.jpg

Barrel http://kurage.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/p1030078.jpg

 

[Rusty_Nail]

Maybe that is an attachment point for a long range rear sight? It looks like it has a hole for a lock screw.

 

[nchawkeye]

It could very well be Swedish, they made rifles in that time period...

My bet is it was a target rifle and the screw thing on the butt was used to adjust elevation when shooting...Typically you don't see hooded front sights on hunting guns...

 

[Anders L]

Sorry, mixed these two up. This is how it should be:

Barrel. This is of course for the rear long range sight. http://kurage.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/p1030080.jpg

Special screw thing. http://kurage.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/p1030078.jpg

 

[Fernando Keilty]

Hello:

The square hole in the top of the forearm is to install the look orthoptic, the screw extending into the bottom of the cylinder is to keep the gun vertically and also to regulate the height of the cylinder head by unscrewing or screwing, to shoot the target

Sincerely, Fernando K

 

[Anders L]

I have sorted that thing out, the mystery lies in the screw underneath the stock.

This one. http://kurage.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/p1030078.jpg

 

[nchawkeye]

Screw that perpendicular to the stock to adjust elevation...

 

[zimmerstutzen]

With an attachment for a diopter sight, the gun appears to be a target model. My guesstimate would be a buttstock adjustment for bench rest shooting. to hold the butt up off the bench.

Offhand shooters had palm rests, why not a butt rest for bench rest shooting.

 

[rickystl]

A cool and interesting gun to say the least. Looks like it is in shooting order. Have you been able to inspect the bore? Caliber?

 

[KABAR2]

" The lock is engraved with a sun and a moon and I think that the lock is a old flintlock and that the lockplate has been resized and converted."

Lock does nont look converted there are no holes filled in for frizzen screw or frizzen this lock was always percussion,

Interesting engraving on the trigger guard.... Tree of life?

 

[Anders L]

With an attachment for a diopter sight, the gun appears to be a target model. My guesstimate would be a buttstock adjustment for bench rest shooting. to hold the butt up off the bench.

Offhand shooters had palm rests, why not a butt rest for bench rest shooting.

Its a good guess, the screw is too short to make any sense, if the forestock is resting on a benchrest, pointing towards a target, the screw does not touch the bench when the toe of the butt stock is. Its a little bit crude and I belive its a later add to the gun, I still belive its for mounting on a sled. :hmm:

The caliber is about 16 mm, isn´t that quite large for a target rifle? And the gun is light and short, more suitable for hunting. I have seen other hunting rifles with diopter sights and similar triggers.

 

[Anders L]

" The lock is engraved with a sun and a moon and I think that the lock is a old flintlock and that the lockplate has been resized and converted."

Lock does nont look converted there are no holes filled in for frizzen screw or frizzen this lock was always percussion,

Interesting engraving on the trigger guard.... Tree of life?

There are filled screwholes, they are very carefully filled and the lockplate is shortened and the percussion parts are not fitted perfect. The inside parts of the lock are made in a fashion more suited to the flintlock era. This is what I believe.

The tree is very interesting, never seen that before, neither the moon and the sun.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Of course I am not sure of what manner of target shooting it may have been used for. I have an extremely heavy 27 pound (13Kg?) rifle in 62 caliber. If I recall correctly, that would be 16mm. Some old timers told me it is a bench gun and others said it was a chunk gun. I'd go with the latter for mine because it appears to only ever have had open sights.

Even here in the states, there were different kinds of shooting competitions that were popular in some areas and not others.

 

[Anders L]

I have removed the barrel and there is not one single mark.

Which countries did not have proofing houses? Sweden did not. English and belgian guns usually have lot of proof marks. How about a german origin?

The lock and the barrel comes from a older weapon since the look is reworked. Could it be older than some law bound proofing houses?

Alot of questions here....

 

[Anders L]

Here is a similar gun with a english lock. This is also a restocked and rebuilt weapon from the 1830-1850-period. Its in a similar style to my gun.

Its on auction right now. The lock is marked R. Hughes Birm.

Check it out http://www.bukowskismarket.com/items/434373/images/1

 

[Baxter]

Birch tree. baxter

 

[KABAR2]

" The lock is engraved with a sun and a moon and I think that the lock is a old flintlock and that the lockplate has been resized and converted."

Lock does nont look converted there are no holes filled in for frizzen screw or frizzen this lock was always percussion,

Interesting engraving on the trigger guard.... Tree of life?

There are filled screwholes, they are very carefully filled and the lockplate is shortened and the percussion parts are not fitted perfect. The inside parts of the lock are made in a fashion more suited to the flintlock era. This is what I believe.

The tree is very interesting, never seen that before, neither the moon and the sun.

On closer inspection... is the screw hidden in the engraving? I think I can make out the frizzen spring screw....the upper screw hole must be well polished in because I still can't see it or the hole for the tab on the back of the spring... with the front of the lock shortened the gunsmith did an good job bringing the lines back around the front edge of the lock... it also looks like the top rear of the lock might also have been reshaped just behind the hammer I see a step down in the line engraving.... it is an interesting gun where more questions than answers are raised... at least it still can be shot and enjoyed....