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Original 1863 springfield

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I own an original 1863 type II springfield(the lock is stamped 1864) The gun is complete(less swivles) and in shootable condition.It is in really good shape and I listed it here for sale but am now having second thoughts! How hard is it to find somthing like this in shootable condition? I would be glad to let some one put pictures up here so that you all can see it if some one would do it for me.
Thnaks
Nathan
 
I looked at the classified ads and did not see it for sale?

Have you pulled it already?

Foster From Flint
 
Nathan, it's not hard to post pictures here, Claude explains it here: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/223970/ It depends if you want to shoot your CW Springfield, they aren't making them anymore and if it is in very good condition it might be worth enough money that you could buy a contemporary rifle that you can shoot without worry that you might damage an historical firearm. Just a thought (or 2).
 
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Sorry I hade recieved a couple of emails about the gun and thought I had it listed here but had listed it on the NSSA web page. I did add it here though I will try posting some pictures.
Thanks
Nathan
 
.
. june 4 / 12:40am


nathan,

looking at an existing-at-auction 1863 Percussion Military Rifle, the asking price is $1000-1500......

personally, i'd hang onto it.

~d~
ps. go to rock island auction company and look up 1863 springfield. (www. rockislandauction . com)
 
Here ya go!


1863Springfieldmusket001.jpg

1863Springfieldmusket002.jpg

1863Springfieldmusket003.jpg

1863Springfieldmusket004.jpg

1863Springfieldmusket005.jpg
 
That's an M1861 Springfield. Obviously, it has seen some service as evidenced by the dings in the stock, but has been well preserved over the years and not allowed to rust into a relic. I'd hang on to it. I had one like it but let it go in a trade. I wish I still had it. It wouldn't bring a premium price if you sell it due to the lack of swivels and the dings, but you could definitely get a decent price for it.
 
Assuming the lock is original, I agree with Nathan B. The gun is a Model 1863 Rifle Musket, Type II which was made in the 1864-1865 time period.

The latest Flayderman's Guide says these are worth $900 in a "good" condition to $2750 in "Fine" condition.

Flayderman writes: "A istorically important arm due to its widespread use in the latter part of the Civil War, this model is the last U.S. martial regulation arm of muzzle-loading design..."
 
Well it is at least an 1861 hammer and barrel. Can't see the barrel bands well, but may be 1863 bands? Is the lock marked US Springfield 1864? If so it could be a parts gun or possibly a repaired gun with mixed parts. There were private contract model 1861's dated 1864, but they wouldn't be marked Springfield.
 
I didn't pay attention to the bands which are Type 2 M1863, but the barrel and hammer are definitely M1861. The picture isn't clear enough to make out the fit between the bolster and the lock. The bolsters were slightly different between the two models and this lock appears to possibly be cut out for the '63 bolster. If the date is 1864, that would settle the matter as far as that is concerned. 1863 would be ambiguous as both models were made in that year. Another clue as to the model is the shape of the ramrod channel at the muzzle end of the barrel. It was wider on the '55 and '61 models to accomodate the swelled ramrod used on those models. It acted as the retainer to keep the ramrod from sliding out. Conversely, the stock of the '63 had a ramrod spring or "spoon" to hold the ramrod in place.

Another thing about this particular piece. It has band springs. That definitely rules out a Type I '63 stock which used clamping bands. The picture isn't clear enough even when I zoom to tell. It does appear that they are this type, but I might just be seeing shadows. At any rate, the existence of a ramrod spring or lack thereof and the widened ramrod channel should make ID easy.

In any case, this gun is a mixed parts weapon. I had one like this with an 1855/61 stock, 1861 lock with a Type II hammer and a Special M1861 barrel, a reproduction '63 ramrod and '63 Type II barrel bands, one of which was reproduction. These guns appeared in the War as "cleaned and repaired" arms and after the War as "put together parts guns". From what I've seen over the years, many of these pieces have mixed parts on them.
 
I am afraid it is a parts rifle, assembled from an 1861 barrel and hammer along with 1863 stock, hardware and lockplate. As Russ stated, Bannermans did a lot of this kind of thing, as well as others. Value is probably more the worth of the parts as opposed to a complete rifle.
 
Just to give you an idea of value.
Two years ago I turned down buying a complete 63 in a little rougher shape than this for $350

Foster From Flint
 
It was at a pawnshop here in Flint, MI

It had a cracked hammer, the nipple (cone) was broken at the bolster and the barrel had the rifling worn smooth or it was bored out.

Foster From Flint
 
Russ T Frizzen said:
And then there was Bannerman's...

Ahhh! Good ol' Bannerman's! That outfit supplied a lot of collectors and re-enactors. I would have loved rummaging around there back in it's heyday, especially on the island!
 
I don't know, Unc, if it was complete, (un-cut stock and barrel, all bands, ramrod, BP and TG, $350 would be an excellent price. I sold a full length '61 barrel (bored smooth) on my way into the big Baltimore Gun Show back in '89 for $75. It was clean and missing the rear sight. I see them like that now for much more. Solid but well worn original stocks (no hardware at all) will sell for around $300 - $350.
 
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