Original Colt 1851 navy!!!

[AWsaddles]

A fellow came by the shop a few days ago with an original colt 1851 and holster that had been through the civil war. It was In good shape and appeared all original except for a small repair to the loading lever latch. I also noticed this particular pistol had a front sight dovetailed into it and it appeared very neatly done but could not determine if it was factory or later gunsmith added. The owner was kind enough to let me and a few of the guys handle it and snap a few pics as it is not often that you get to see something that has seen that much history. Hope you all enjoy the pics.

 

[necchi]

That's cool stuff ain't it?
There a guy that comes to the local Gun Shows and he always has a 1/2 dozen originals, listed between $1200-2000 :shocked2:
But if you sit and visit with him he'll let you handle'm.
It's just a neat thing, like you say, to have something with that kind of history in your hands, :thumbsup:

 

[ericb]

Ain't nuthin' like the Real Thing...

 

[btech]

So how did you know it was the real thing?

 

[M. De Land]

Nice gun, and wouldn't it be cool if it could tell of it's history. Did you happen to notice the duvets on the back side of the bolt notch's in the cylinder? This is caused from retarded bolt lift. It was probably out of time from the factory.
In my opinion this is an excellent example of the most frequent and important timing problems in revolvers.
I point it out because it is hardly noticed at first until it grows to this point and most folks are not even aware of it. Most are concerned about premature bolt drop and a rub line which hurts noting functionally. Actually it serves a purpose in braking cylinder rotation inertia before the bolt drops in the notch.
It takes a long time to make that deep of an impression as the hand tries to turn the cylinder before the bolt is completely clear. Mike D.

 

[necchi]

premature bolt drop and a rub line which hurts noting functionally. Actually it serves a purpose in braking cylinder rotation inertia before the bolt drops in the notch.

Horse Pucky,
Inertia from the hands mechanical advance?
Nice theory, but
I'll grant the drag line hurts nothing but cosmetics, but the bolt doesn't need to drag as part of the mechanical function of the gun.

 

[M. De Land]

Didn't say it was necessary,said it serves a function. What ever the spring load is on the bolt nose after it drops against the revolving cylinder does indeed bleed off inertia and causes a braking or dampening action to the bolt nose dropping into the notch and slamming into the far side.
My revolver bolts load at least 3-5 pounds of pressure against the cylinder body and some revolvers a great deal more, after dropping. This is the reason they must be polished and if not will hog out a groove not just a rub mark.
Lead in ramps were a great improvement to bolt drop function and it really make folks feel good when the bolt drops only into them.
It is not just inertia driving the cylinder but hand contact as well which should push through bolt drop into the notch.
One of the tricks of checking hand length is to drag your thumb on the cylinder lightly while slowly cycling each chamber. You would be surprised how many new revolvers will not pass this test and rely on inertia to finish the lock up. Mike D.

 

[Atlast357]

Nice to see the real thing.
I noticed an item that raises a question. The
barrel wedge has a rounded notch that appears
to clear the ,what I always thought was a retaining screw.
All my replicas don't have the notch. My guess is makes
it easier to remove the wedge. Come to think of it now
the screw is there to catch the wedge spring toe, then remove the screw.

 

[rwiliff]

Nice to see the real thing.
I noticed an item that raises a question. The
barrel wedge has a rounded notch that appears
to clear the ,what I always thought was a retaining screw.
All my replicas don't have the notch. My guess is makes
it easier to remove the wedge. Come to think of it now
the screw is there to catch the wedge spring toe, then remove the screw.

It looks to me like there is no wedge spring. It appears that there is a closed groove milled out of the wedge. The screw appears to catch the wedge at the closed end. That's just what it looks like to me in the photos. If so, I want a wedge like that one.

Warmest Regards,
Robert

 

[Gatofeo]

Interesting dovetailed front sight.
It looks like the dovetailed sight I noticed on an 1851 Colt Navy that Wild Bill Hickok carried. That revolver is in the Buffalo Bill Cody museum in Cody, Wyoming.
Saw the revolver this summer, and I was so surprised! No brass bead for Wild Bill, but a streamlined sight in a dovetail.
Perhaps this was a special feature that Colt would provide, or Bill had a frontier gunsmith do the work.
Who knows?
The brass bead on the 1851 glares badly in sunlight. The longer sight would probably have less glare, especially if it were made of German silver or iron.
From what I could tell, looking through glass, Hickok's 1851 had a front sight that looked like it was German silver, perhaps pewter. Not brassy looking at all. But, it could also have been steel, polished to a silvery hue by wear.
How I wish someone would load Hickok's old revolver and shoot it for accuracy at 25 yards or so. It would be telling to determine where its conical and ball projectiles hit, in comparison.
The factory paper loads for .36 caliber varied a great deal, as to the weight of conical bullet and powder.
Search the net for my old post, "Found! Original Loads for Cap and Ball Revolvers."
Lots of good info there.

Love this old Colt you're sharing with us. A fine looking specimen that's at least 140 years old. It's survived the years well.
I'd love to shoot it, to see how the ol' girl does!

 

[jaxenro]

I have pics of quite a few 1851's on my site with dovetailed front sites. Many of them are factory engraved I am thinking this was a special option. Was the Hickock gun factory engraved?

 

[jaxenro]

For instance look at this one
http://percussionrevolvers.com/index.php?topic=237.msg253#msg253

 

[Rifleman1776]

Remarkably good condition for an original.

 

[btech]

Almost too good, ain't it?

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Excellent piece, just well taken care of when in use and well preserved afterwards. The holster too.

 

[jaxenro]

Condition is really indicative only of condition. I have seen photos of 1851's that looked almost new and in relic condition. Many of the engraved and cased guns look unfired or close to it. Just depends on the use and storage conditions.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Condition is really indicative only of condition. I have seen photos of 1851's that looked almost new and in relic condition. Many of the engraved and cased guns look unfired or close to it. Just depends on the use and storage conditions.

Can't disagree.
But working guns usually show their history.

 

[jaxenro]

True some do. My point was that we are often conditioned to base age on condition when the two can often be unrelated. Age is a constant base on manufacture condition is a subjective appraisal based on many factors such ascare, storage, use, etc.

 

[George T.]

Thank you so much for sharing! I always wish that they could talk. Very nice revolver and again Thanks!

Geo. T.

 

[AWsaddles]

So how did you know it was the real thing?

Several things led me to believe that this particular pistol was original. One was the fact that it had been in the owners family since the civil war. This pistol is not for sale or anything, just that the owner brought it by our shop for show and tell. Another is the markings and barrel address all are correct for the date of manufacture. I was hoping that the pics of these were clearer but camera was appearently not focused .The serial number dated this pistol to 1863. Also there other details that while not impossible to fake, are hard for to get correct. Checkering on the hammer and hammer profile on an actual colt is different than replicas. They even changed from years of manufacture. Also the grip frame and back strap have a slightly different profile. On original Colts , even the rifling was different, cut deeper on the examples I've seen than the newer more modern examples. This one had a pretty good bore .If some one was good enough to fake all the small details like this and proof marks they could have easily hidden the repairs to the loading lever but they didn't.