Original J.W. Hawksley flask

[Stumpkiller]

I was looking for an adjustable shot measure at Track of the Wolf and my search pulled up this 7-1/2" beauty. An original J.W. Hawksley powder flask. It was only $15 more than the $49.99 reproductions they offer, which I'd been debating buying, so now it's home and going to be joining me on my fall/winter bunny and grouse pestering walks.

It has a replacement spring that is not quite proper but functions well and has a few crumples, but nothing severe. No splits, cracks or other maladys. If it was pristine I'd be afraid to use it, so this was ideal.

 

[Zonie]

If your interested, your flask is #540 in Ray Riling's "THE POWDER FLASK BOOK".
He classified it as a "PANAL" flask (as opposed to 'BIRD', 'DEAD GAME', 'DOG', 'OAK LEAF' etc.).
Sorry but he didn't have any special verbiage about it.

At the time of publication he gave a value of $14 for it. Of course that was in 1953 when folks were making $1.80 an hour. :grin:

The author says the Geo. & J. W. Hawksley firm (British) was founded before 1845. It was sold to the James Dixon & Sons in 1947.

 

[Trench]

Is the nozzle a dram selecter? I was wondering what the numbers were; 3, 2 1/2, 2, etc.

 

[chance]

Now that is cool!!!

 

[arquebus]

Trench, yes you are correct, those are dram settings on the nozzle.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Yep. 3, 2-3/4, 2-1/2 and 2-1/4 drams.

One dram = approximately 27.35 grains of powder.

(Dram is a volume measure so the true weight varies by when comparing to a weight measure).

Thanks Zonie - good info.

 

[beaverbill]

nice

 

[rabjr]

Nice catch Stumpy. :thumbsup:

 

[Joel/Calgary]

(Dram is a volume measure so the true weight varies by when comparing to a weight measure).

With respect, a dram is no more a volumetric measurement than a grain or an ounce. By definition, there are 16 drams to an avoirdupois ounce, just as there are 16 ounces or 7000 grains to an avoirdupois pound. We just use volumetric measurement marked in ounces, drams, or grains because it is so much simpler, especially in the field, and it is usually accurate "enough". The measures are calibrated assuming some particular bulk density, either for a particular powder or for some generalized "average" powder (oddly enough, close to 1.0g/cc, IIRC, so almost the same as water). That is, assuming they are actually calibrated - I've seen very approximate "grain" markings on some modern-made measures.

Similar considerations apply to volumetric shot measures marked in ounces (shot size, roundness, lead alloy, and consistency all make a difference), and which often are marked for the powder charge contained in that volume, marked to the closest 1/4dr.

Then there is the consideration of the measurement technique used: as-poured or settled (tapped), and rounded or struck off level.

Joel

 

[Claude Mathis]

Well, I'll be drammed. :grin:

The dram was historically both a coin and a weight. Currently it is both a small mass in the Apothecaries' system of weights and a small unit of volume. This unit is called more correctly fluid dram or in contraction also fluidram.

The fluid dram is defined as 1/8 of a fluid ounce, which means it is exactly equal to
3.696 691 195 312 5 mL in the United States and
3.551 632 812 500 0 mL in the Commonwealth and Ireland.

In the United Kingdom, a teaspoon was formerly defined as 1 fluid dram.

Dram is also used informally to mean a small amount of liquid, especially Scotch whisky.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Dram is also used informally to mean a small amount of liquid, especially Scotch whisky.

Now THAT makes sense.

"Bartender; pour me a wee 3.6966911953125 mL of Macallan, if ye please."

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Yeah, I discovered (and posted about) the wierdness of the Apothecary system when we had the last discussion of what a dram of powder is. Their "fluid dram" is 1/8 of a fluid ounce - it looks like it evolved from the Apothecary drachm/dram weight, which is 1/8 of an Apothecary ounce or 60 grains. The context-specifying modifier "fluid" is critical. Note that (a) as a unit for liquids, it still has nothing to do with volumetric measurement of powdered or granular solids, and (b) any powder charge thrown using that volume would be approximately in units of apothecaries' drachms/drams and be about DOUBLE the proper charge.

And just for completeness, no original documents I can recall reading give reasonable charges if one uses the apothecary's dram rather than the avoirdupois one. IIRC, there's a discussion of this on one of David Minshall's sites. In our context, the "dram" is the avoirdupois unit of weight. Period.

I do find it interesting (but irrelevant to our purposes) that as the Imperial and American fluid ounces are slightly different, their fluid drams are similarly slightly different.

Then there is that informal Scottish (and Danish!!!) usage of "dram" for an indeterminate small amount of ardent spirits. I'll drink to that one (single malt preferred, but there are MANY possibilities)!


Joel

 

[Chilidog]

That's a cool flask. There's just something about old stuff that appeals to me. I guess it's the nostalgia and the "I wonder how often the original owner used this and what all his other stuff looked like?" I suppose I'm just a sentimental old rascal, but I can't help it. Lot's of old stories in this hobby of ours if only the gear could talk. Even so, a little imagination goes a long way. :grin: