Original Sam Hawken flintlock

[Herb]

R.L. Wilson has some excellent firearms books, including "Steel Canvas", "Silk and Steel" (about women and firearms), Winchesters, Colts, etc. I just got his book "The Peacemakers, Arms and Adventure in the American West", from Edward R. Hamilton, Bookseller, for $17.95. ISBN: 0-7858-1892-8. In this book he has photos of Kit Carson and Jim Bridger Hawkens plus others, including a .70 caliber with tang ladder peep sight that was in Theodore Roosevelt's collection, and four pistols. He writes "A specialty of the author's profession is the authentication of collector's firearms, particularly American antiques." And, "As with Indian arms, collectors of mountain man pieces need to exercise particular caution to avoid acquiring cleverly altered originals or patinated replicas."

He pictures a Hawken I've not seen before, and his caption is "TOP, by Samuel Hawken, and so signed; full-stock, and converted from flintlock to percussion. One of earliest Hawken Plains-style rifles known."

The rifle has a steel pineapple patch box, a silver crescent forward of that, brass tacks in the wrist, silver key escutcheons, and the rear sight has been moved back about six inches. There is no snail but a drum screwed into the side of the barrel.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, if you got that book for less than $70 you can count yourself lucky.
It is a beautifully printed book.

 

[rich pierce]

Cool, but were early Jake or J&S flintlocks anything like it? We'll never know, I guess.

 

[gonzomann]

Was the rifle a fullstock or a halfstock? I would be curios to know! I am building a building a Hawken half stock flinter and would love to see a pic of an original.


Curtis

 

[gonzomann]

Sorry about the previous post, I read your posting a little closer and saw it was a fullstock.

Curtis

 

[LaBonte]

That Sam Hawken, which is in the Smithsonian is a late circa mid-1850's piece and not an early piece. There is a similar full-stock piece built about the same time but in percussion at the School of the Ozarks.
Here's pics..
Smithsonian -

School of the Ozarks -

Here's a pre-1825 Sam Hawken (Sam and Jake both built rifles prior to partnering up in 1825 - Sam was in St Louis beginning in 1822, and Jake since 1818, but both also built guns before that). This one could be a pre-1825 St Louis rifle or an Ohio gun. Dating by name alone is tough, but generally speaking the "classic" Hawken style iron mounted rifle marked S. Hawken is post 1849, after Jake died.

For one of the earliest J & S Hawkens (circa 1826-1830) see the J & S Hawken in the www.bbhc.org gun collection. This is an early transitional piece that was once full-stocked with a longer (40-42") - it was also gussied up at a later date, probably when shortened. Based on the lock and panels it was built originally as a percussion, but the stock style, short trigger bar, short tang, and sort of beaver tail cheekpiece, an almost exact duplicate of the cheekpiece found on M-1814/1817, rifles that the brothers helped build, are not "normal" to the the later guns built by Jake and Sam as partners..here's one pic of this earlier rifle - more can be seen at the BBHC.org link......

 

[Goldhunter]

There is a full stock Hawken in the LDS Church museum here in SLC that I keep trying to get down and take a picture of. I say it about 7 years ago, but didn't have a camera. Hope it's still there.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The Smithsonian rifle does appear to be a drum and cone conversion from flint. The lock seems to show where the pan area was ground away and perhaps filled holes where the feather spring mounted. It seems as if the rear sight was changed or moved back.

 

[atki]

I've seen the fullstock Hawken in the museum in Salt Lake City. I have a photo of it somewhere. The gun is behind glass and I shot it with my phone camera. It is a percussion. It is marked that it belonged to Joseph Smith. He died in 1844.

WB

 

[BigSkyRambler]

IMO, if you got that book for less than $70 you can count yourself lucky.
It is a beautifully printed book.

I think I paid $19.95 for my copy at Barnes and Noble two years ago. :rotf: I may switch out my oval patchbox for a pineapple on my FS flinter.