Original US Military pistols...

[Brad Foust]

Hello all,
I recently aquired a couple really neat original US military pistols.
Just wondering if anyone might have some info on them, or steer me to where i might find some info.
One is US model 1836 Flintlock, with the lock dated 1838.
The other is the US model 1842, built in 1851 according to the lock date.
Both have been heavily used, but are complete and function. They are in at best "GOOD" condition.
Not busted up or anything, just had allot of rust in the barrels inside and out.
The stocks are ok, and the locks work.
The flint 1836 has some new looking parts in the lock, but the barrel shows no sign of having been re-converted back to flint. It could be original flint?
I try and collect Springfield" stuff. Though these are not Springfields they really fit in my early stuff.
Does anyone know ifthese were ever made by Springfield? Or designed??
I think I have heard that Springfield made similiar pistols???
Thanks for any info.

 

[azmntman]

:idunno: hotoSmile:

 

[Artificer]

I'm fairly certain these are the pistols the OP is referring to:

M1836 Flint Pistol
http://www.mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.com/02_firearms/02images/1836p_1.JPG

M1842 Percussion Pistol
http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/civilwarantiques/cwimages/2ndJanuary2011webcat-18.jpg

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Though I finished the reconversion to flint of one M1836 pistol, I don't know the production of these arms well, but I did not think Springfield made more than pattern samples and did not get into production of them. That was left to Contractors. So I went here and found:

M1836 http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFP.../DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFIC=8689,DATABASE=44544056,

and

"In 1844 Springfield Armory made 12 pattern pieces for the M1842 percussion pistol. All these were numbered 1 to 12 on the barrel."
http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFP.../DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFIC=10769,DATABASE=objects,

Gus

 

[Brad Foust]

Thanks to all for all the information.
So it seems that although Springfield did not produce these other than the prototype? They were the designers??
Since my intent is to try and collect Springfield Arms, these do fit in my plan?
Sort of like having a Remington made Model 03' rifle?
I have tried to attach a photo, but just cannot figure it out.
Sorry

 

[Artificer]

Thanks to all for all the information.
So it seems that although Springfield did not produce these other than the prototype? They were the designers??
Since my intent is to try and collect Springfield Arms, these do fit in my plan?
Sort of like having a Remington made Model 03' rifle?
I have tried to attach a photo, but just cannot figure it out.
Sorry

I hope I don't botch this explanation as it involves a long history of Springfield production. :grin: :grin:

Though there were times Springfield made production runs of pistols and as late as the M1911 pistols they made in the early 20th century, Springfield GENERALLY did not usually make continued and new production runs of pistols. Pistol production was usually contracted out to Civilian firms over the years, as a general rule or sometimes they tested and accepted pistols that were already made for U.S. issue (as in Colt's Black Powder Navy and Army Revolvers, Colt SSA revolvers and later S&W and Colt 1917 revolvers for examples).

Both Springfield and Harpers Ferry Armories were designated over the years to make Pattern examples for various U.S. arms. (At least until we burnt down Harpers Ferry Armory during the WBTS.) Then after the contracts were let, both Armories were assigned at various times to inspect and approve the completed guns before issue to U.S. Forces. Both Arsenals were also used as R&D and Test facilities throughout their days, as we use the words today.

Off the top of my head, I don't know if Springfield made the Pattern Example for the M1836 Flintlock pistol as they did for the M1842 Percussion Pistol. If they did, then you may wish to include a Contractor's example in your Springfield collection to represent the Springfield Pattern pieces. If your collection is strictly what Springfield produced, then it would be darn near impossible to find one of the Pattern examples Springfield made.

When I first visited Springfield NHS in 1984, I got to speak to the Curator after asking a few questions. Since he was so generous with his time, I asked, "I know Springfield never made a M1817 Contract Rifle, but do you have an example of one in the Museum?" He excused himself and went off and got an EXCELLENT condition one from "the back room." When he returned, he either hadn't heard me correctly or forgotten what I said and he remarked, "You realize we never made these here?" I said I understood and though I was not allowed to actually touch the rifle, I got the information I was looking for by looking at it in his hands. What a treat that was!

Gus

 

[zimmerstutzen]

US Martial muzzle loading pistols are quite the niche so far as interest. The only production repros are the flint harpers ferry and the 1855 spring field. If I had the money I would buy a mint model and have the Italians run off a hundred copies. There just seems to be no interest in us military activity between 1815 and 1861.

 

[Artificer]

I had a Navy Arms copy of the French M1777 pistol that was the Model for our first U.S. Pistol M1799, made by North and Cheney. It was surprisingly accurate at 25 yards for the heavy trigger pull and the fact that even with my huge paws, it was not easy to grip uniformly from shot to shot.

I liked shooting the repro of the Harper's Ferry Pistol Model 1805 better as the grip felt better and the trigger pull was not as bad as the NA M1777 pistol.

In the mid 80's, I searched for almost two years for a M1855 Pistol and Carbine stock to use for re-enacting, but I had no luck finding one with the stock or the stock separately.

The one flintlock pistol I never got around to buying and I am still kicking myself for it, was the Navy Arms "Black Watch" Brass Scottish Pistol.

Gus

 

[Brad Foust]

Thanks to all.
I appreciate it