overwelmed by finishes

[Billnpatti]

I don't have a specific brand of leather dye. I just use brown leather dye. You can probably get what you need at some place like Tandy's. When your stock is ready to be stained, just apply the leather dye just as you would any other stain. I use the wood daubers that you can get from Tandy's or a hobby shop. Swab it on evenly and let it dry completely. It will be scary dark but don't worry. Once it is dry, use 4 ought steel wool to buff the color back to whatever appeals to your eye. Once the color pleases you, apply the finish of your choice.

 

[galamb]

No wonder the OP is "overwhelmed" by finishes :rotf:

 

[tannerbollum]

Oh my gosh no kidding! Some more seriously beautiful rifles there. seems like there's a strong following for aqua fortis but results seem to vary all across the board. Different wood? number of coats? Seems like that may be the way to go? But maybe I should ask a more basic "dumber" question: what's the difference between sealer, stain, finish,... What jobs do they do and is there any limit or minimum to which go on? Also if I start asking questions about metal finishes would that be way out of line? should I start a different thread? I'd hate to high jack my own posts. Thank you all so much once again and sorry for such rookie questions

 

[galamb]

At their most basic -

a stain will color the stock and a sealer will protect it from the elements.

I have just recently began playing around with aqua fortis (have trouble getting it across the border).

While it is not a "stain" it does darken the wood and shows off all the "figure" IF there is figure there in the first place - so excellent for hard or soft tiger (curly) maple, but perhaps of little to no great advantage if using it with plain maple or some other woods.

Stains come in three basic formulations -
water based, oil based and alcohol based

All of them can give you the desired color you want, some penetrate better than others depending on the wood you are putting them on.

Water based stains penetrate well but give the (weakest) color out of all I have tried - but I do use them - often give the stock a coat or two of black water based stain if I want it to have a dark finish, then go over top of that with an oil stain (usually one of the gel stains - just find I can control the flow better/don't get runs).

After you are happy with the color then you need a topcoat, finish coat seal coat (pick your term - they mean pretty much the same thing).

You can use a natural/traditional type top coat - linseed oil, tung oil, traditional spar varnish (short oil), danish oil (long oil) etc - I don't find them durable enough, but many do and use them.

In the synthetics you have urethane, 1 and 2 part polyurethane, modern spar varnish (also called "exterior" varnish), epoxy coats etc available in matte, semi-gloss, gloss finishes.

And then there are a few products that have been specifically developed for rifle stocks like Tru-oil or Jim Chambers traditional oil finish which are sorta "hybrid" traditional finishes that have be formulated to increase their durability.

Instead of trying to figure out what is "BEST", because there is no correct answer for that, you should select your finishes to suit YOUR tastes and needs.

If you want a "reddish" finish and Varathane light cherry oil stain will give you the color you want, go with that.

If you only hunt in nice weather and humidity is not a problem then if you want to use linseed oil - go for it - if you hunt in rain/snow maybe throw on a modern spar varnish with the degree of luster you are looking for.

Because at the end of the day nobody can tell you what is "best for you".

If you have a piece of left over wood from the stock, experiment - no law says you can't put some mahogany stain over top of walnut stain to get a custom color.

If you don't have spare wood you can "test" in the barrel channel where it won't be seen.

Find what you like and go for it.

 

[Spikebuck]

If some one could show me what the dangler's/ tru-oil looks like I would greatly appreciate it.

Dangler's Reddish Brown then Klein's Orange Toner over. Finished with multiple thin coats of TruOil buffed back with steel wool to remove gloss. A coat of Johnson's Paste Wax. This is probably lighter than you're thinking, but an example of the combination.

 

[tenngun]

I use lm stains and have been very happy with them. I used to use tru-cote from wakegon bar but now use a linseed-pine oil finish from track of the wolf. Last year I redid my centermark tulle,inleting the side plate and trigger gaurd and thined the forestock. I was amazed at how deep the stain and oil went, at least 1/16 inch into the wood. I was a good 6 hours over two days sanding with 100 grit paper to remove before I started shaping.The oil goes on once a day for a week then once aq week for a month for a total of 12 coats. wax afterwords.

 

[Billnpatti]

Yes, if you have never done any woodwork where the various products are used, it can be a bewildering thing. First, there is such a thing as a wood grain filler. It is a paste-like material that is used to fill the grain on open grain woods like oak. You will have no need for them when finishing a gunstock because open grain woods are seldom, if ever, used for gun stocks. So, you can forget about that product for gun stock work. Then there is sealer, or it is also sometimes called sanding sealer. It has a thin consistency and resembles varnish. It can be used on gun stocks but will seldom be of any value for this aapplication. It's best use is when staining a wood that does not take stain well such as pine or poplar. If you first apply a coat of sealer to one of these woods, they will take a stain more evenly. Now we get to those things that will be of use when finishing a gun stock and that is stain and finish. There are many stains on the market and most any wood stain will work for staining a gun stock. You can go to any woodworking store, paint store, Home Depot, etc. and find good wood stains on their shelves. All will work for a gun stock. All you have to do is find one that looks good to your eye on the specie of wood your gun stock is made of. Different stains look different on different species of wood. There is usually a color chart in the store showing how the stain will look on different species of wood. Pick the one you like. You can also buy stains made especially for gun stocks by companies, such as Birchwood-Casey, and sold in gun and sporting goods stores. I am not convinced that they offer and real advantage over the good quality stains such as MinWax stains sold in paint stores. I have used both and now use MinWax stains as my stain of choice when I choose to use a wood stain. Actually, my real preference is either brown leather dye or Aqua Fortis. The leather dye is easier to use and is safer but the Aqua Fortis is what was used back in the day and still gives a beautiful color to a gun stock.

The last thing is finishes. I have used Tru Oil by Birchwood-Casey, Linspeed Oil, Formby's Tung Oil (wich is not really tung oil, it is just varnish diluted with mineral spirits). I have long made my own finish by simply diluting a good varnish about 50/50 with mineral spirits. I have used urethane varnish and had good results but I had a man tell me that urethane is not waterproof so he uses spar varnish rather than urethane varnish. I don't know about urethane varnish not being waterproof but I do know that spar varnish is the varnish of choice for wood that is exposed to the elements. It is the varnish that is most often used on boats. Thus the name "spar" varnish. Anyway, in order to get a beautiful finish on your gun stock, it must be properly sanded down to at least 220 grit sandpaper or finer. The surface of the wood must be clean and dust free. If you choose to use a stain, the stain of choice is applied and allowed to thoroughly dry. The surface of the gun stock is then de-whiskered by lightly running over it with a very fine sandpaper such as a 600 grit or finer. Then thoroughly remove the dust with a tack cloth. This will make the surface nice and smooth and ready for the finish. The finish is never brushed or sprayed on. It is applied by dipping your finger tips into some of the finish and rubbing it into the wood of the stock. Do a small area and rub it until it starts to feel dry. then move to another area and repeat until you have covered all of the stock. Hang it in a dry area to dry overnight. then sand with your 600 grit paper or 4 ought steel wool. Wipe thoroughly with a tack cloth and repeat the light application of another coat of finish. Continue this process for 5 to 10 very light coats. The last coat should be glass smooth and will be very shiny. Don't worry about the shiny finish, just let the finish cure for about a month so that it is thoroughly cured and nice and hard. Then go over it lightly with 4 ought steel wool until the surface is evenly satin all over. Next, use some 600 grit or finer wet or dry sandpaper (available in automotive parts stores in the paint area). Put a few drops of dish detergent in some water, wet the stock with the water and lightly sand with the sandpaper. Keep examining the stock in a good light to see that you are getting the finish to an even flat finish. Do not so this with dry paper, it must be wet. All sanding is done lightly, you do not want to remove the finish, you only want to dull it down to get rid of the shiny appearance but leave all of the carefully applied varnish. W you have it looking like you want, thoroughly wipe off the stock with a damp cloth and allow it to dry thoroughly. Then apply a good paste wax and buff it and you are finished with your stock and ready to assemble it with all of the other parts to make your gun.

When you are ready, we can discuss metal finishes.

 

[tannerbollum]

Alrighty so it seems like leather dye is a good choice. Work it back to the darkness I want, then add the finish? Seems like spar varnish is the weather proof stuff ya? Mix it with something like mineral spirits or just the way it is? Then a wax?? I think I got something of an idea going. Would there need to be some sort of protectant between the dye and the wood? Is wax needed and which brand? And still how much of what would I need to finish this thing. Sorry I am so slow to get all this. Thank you all for such great responses.

 

[Billnpatti]

Apply the dye, let it dry and then buff back to the depth of color that pleases your eye. Dilute your varnish with mineral spirits. I prefer a satin varnish. The first dilution should be pretty thin so it soaks into the wood. About 50/50 mix for the first coat. After that, you can use a bit thicker dilution, say, maybe, 30 percent mineral spirits and 70 percent varnish. Apply it with your finger tips and rub each coat in well. Each coat is very thin and will have no drips, runs, sags, etc, if it is applied correctly just as I have told you. Buff lightly with 4 ought steel wool after each coat has dried. You only want to knock off the shine, not cut through the varnish. Keep applying coats allowing each to dry overnight before buffing with steel wool and applying the next coat. Be sure to thoroughly wipe all dust off your stock after buffing with the steel wool. Use a tack cloth for this. You will need at least 5 coats and 10 is best. After that last coat, let it cure for a few days before assembling your gun. You can now use it but in about a month, you will want to remove the luster by buffing with 4 ought steel wool. Do this lightly so all you do is soften the luster, not cut into the finish. Buff it to a uniform soft luster. Another method is to use a very fine wet or dry sand paper. You will want something like a 1,000 grit or even finer. This is available in the paint department at your auto parts store. Use water with a few drops of dish detergent in it to keep your stock and paper thoroughly wet as you lightly sand the finish to soften it to your preference. Wipe it thoroughly to remove all signs of sanding dust and then examine it in a bright light to see that it is buffed evenly all over. Touch up any spots that do not match the rest of the finish. Next, apply a coat of Birchwood-Casey's Stock Sheen. This is an extremely fine polishing abrasive that will give you a magnificent finish. Be sure to read and follow the directions. Lastly, apply a good paste wax and buff. I prefer Renaissance Wax. That is what museums use on their displays to protect them. It is available from places like Dixie Gun Works, Track of The Wolf or many of the better furniture stores. It is great stuff and a jar will last forever. It's a good thing it lasts because it is pretty pricy but it is the best. You can also use a more common product such as Johnson's paste floor wax.

As an additional note, you will want to apply your first couple of coats of varnish to the barrel channel and lock area also to waterproof them. Use a little brush to get into the lock area but be sure to wipe away any excess varnish that does not soak into the wood.

I apply a coat of the Renaissance Wax to my gun stocks every once in a while to keep them protected and looking nice.