Oxyoke wonderwads with smoothbore PRBs

[roundball]

For years I've used oxyoke wonderwads with every rifled muzzleloader hunting load I've used...both PRBs & conicals...and they've always provided worthwhile improvements in protecting the patch, tightning groups, etc...note I said 'rifled' muzzleloaders.

Yet in both .54 and .62 caliber smoothbores where I've been experimenting for the best PRB load, using a "wonderwad" under a patched ball made the groups worse than when just using a patched ball.

In the .54cal, using a wad didn't affect general group size, but would sporadically cause a wild flyer 6" away from an otherwise very tight group at 50yds...all the way to the edge of a large paper plate...if I eliminated the wad the flyers stopped...put it back in and the flyers started again.

In the .62cal, the "wonderwad" didn't cause an occasional random flyer, but would open up the group to a several inches in general....remove the wad and the groups closed up with holes often touching.

In trying to figure out the "failure mechanism" so to speak, I've wondered if:

The edge of a wad is occasionally getting "blown out" just at muzzle exit and puts an influence on the exiting ball...but I tried 1, 2, and 3 wonderwads thinking that if stacked up, there would be enough material to prevent the wad nearest the ball from blowing out...but that made no difference...still got the occasional flyer.

So now I'm wondering if the thin soft "wonderwad" is occasionally developing a "spin" rotation as it accelerates up the smoothbore which somehow influences the ball at exit...ie: it may spin one way one time, another way another time, or not at all some times, etc, giving non-uniform group results.

Not total speculation because this phenomenon exists in the modern trap & skeet shotgunning world such that trap and skeet barrels can be bought which have 4 straight grooves running the length of the bore to lock the wads in place so no shotcup rotation can occur and negatively influence the pattern.

Curious what the brain trust might think about this "apparent" trend...good results with wonderwads in rifles...opposite results with wonderwads in smoothbores ??

 

[renovato]

It might be that the wad, being lighter than the ball, is trying to "get blown past it" at the muzzle and imparting a slight spin to it.

I've wondered about this on rifled barrels, but if it happens, the spin imparted by the rifling stabilizes it enough not to notice. My groups have always improved using wads, but I also don't shoot smoothbore.

You might try a thicker and/or stiffer wad material like the hard felt offered by Durofelt or the vegetable fiber material from Buffalo Arms. I've heard the veggie fiber holds a lot more lube but haven't tried it yet. Another option to try might be filler like corn meal.

Good luck!

 

[Rebel]

In my Jackie Brown .20 ga i use a thick overpowder wad then a half a lubed Fiber cushion wad, and then either a patched ball or bare ball and thin overshot card. Might give it a try and see how it does for you.

 

[roundball]

In my Jackie Brown .20 ga i use a thick overpowder wad then a half a lubed Fiber cushion wad, and then either a patched ball or bare ball and thin overshot card. Might give it a try and see how it does for you.

What kind of 50yd groups do you get with or without the wads?

 

[paulvallandigham]

I also think you need to use a harder wad, like a standard 1/8" thick( .125") overpowder card. I also have used overshot wafers on top of my 1/2 cusion wad to give the face of it regidity and sqareness to the bore, then the patch round ball. I think this combination keeps the wads square to the bore, at the muzzle, seals the bore from gas than the wool fiber wads do, give me a base for lube- the 1/2 cushion wad. I have shot PRB on top of cream of wheat, which proved to adequately seal the bore, but didn't like how it tended to clump in higher humidity. I am switching to coarser corn meals, which seems to stay drier, even in high humidity, pours well out of my flask, and seems to scour the grooves of rifling better than COW. I would not hesitate to use corn meal- about 50 grains in volume, for a filler in the 20 ga. fowler. I would put it on top of a overpowder wad, and then run a PRB down on top of the corn meal. I think loose grain will be highly unlikely to put uneven forces on the PRB at the muzzle and eliminate this theory, if not the cause for fliers. I don't know what is causing your fliers, but if your patches come out looking those you posted the other day from your T/C rifle, you should not be having troubles with the lube, or patch thickness. That leaves the weight of the ball, casting flaws, and air bubbles, which may sometimes be detected by carefully weighing and sorting the balls. I know you are weighing charges at home, and putting them in individual containers to go to the range, so differences in powder charges should not be a problem either. I don't know how you are loading the rounds, or how much compression you are putting on the powder charge during the load. I don't know the size of your vent hole, or whether you are blowing different amounts of powder from the main charge out the vent when you load the PRB. I don't know what you are doing to keep the round ball round when you load it, so you don't get fliers from deformed balls.


I use FFg powder because the larger size powder granules rarely blow out of the vent, during ball seating, or when I am seating wads, for that matter. so that my powder charges in the barrel remain consistent from shot to shot. I run the PRB down on the powder slowly and to my mark, so I don't compress the powder or wad and powder unevenly from shot to shot. I do everything I can to NOT deform the front of the round ball during loading. I don't bounce the ramrod on the ball to make sure its seated. The Chronograph bears out the wisdom of this loading procedure, as each helps reduce the SDV of my load. On a smoothbore, it also seems to help velocity and uniformity of velocity( SDV) if I run a heavily lubed cleaning patch down the barrel after seating the ball. I see an increase in velocity of about 20 fps, and a sdv that approaches single digits.

I hope this gives you some ideas to try. You seem so close with that smoothbore. I want you to succeed.

 

[Rebel]

Don't know, i don't have any place yet that i can shoot that far. I have only tried it at 25 so far. I do get better groups with the wad than without it at that range. Or at least i have so far, i haven't fired it a lot so i may not be the best comparison.

 

[Russianblood]

In my 20 bore NW trade gun my load is 70gr 2f KIK powder, overpowder card, 2 - 1/8" felt wads (from precision reloading, lubed with Moose Juice), .600 round ball with OxYoke prelubed .015 patch.

I can keep all my shots in a 3" bull at 25yds off hand and around 3" at 50yds. It was a good enough combination for me to win my first woodswalk with. :grin:

 

[silverfox]

dJust got to do this Russian. That's sure is a strange group you shot there.
Fox :winking:

 

[Russianblood]

dJust got to do this Russian. That's sure is a strange group you shot there.
Fox :winking:

That's what I thought too! :rotf:

 

[Java Man]

I've been using a prelubed cushion wad under the prb in my .62 Fusil with 70gr 2F. Adding an over powder card does not seem to make much diff, other than protecting the powder from the lube.

It will shoot one big ragged hole at 25yds OH. But had a little trouble Saturday when I finally tried to put it on paper at 50yds. I think it was the sight picture. I shot the 25yd group, then switched to a rifle at 25, then tried to shoot a group with the smoothie at 50.

When I take the smoothbore, I should leave other guns at home.

 

[Russianblood]

I found I couldn't hit an 8" bull at 50yds until I used the 2 felt wads. Just play with you wad combinations and try again at 50yds and you may be surprised (I know I was :shocked2: ).