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pan powder choice help

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chironomidkraut

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I am a greenhorn to this forum so please be gentle...... lol
so I just bought a hawkins woodsman .50cal flintlock rifle and I bought ffg black powder for the main charge in the barrel and I had a hard time finding ffffg black powder for the pan, so the guy sold me on fffg pyrodex for the flash pan will this be ok?
also I am shooting 177gr led balls anybody try to shoot sabots through a rifle like this.. thanks guys
 
Forget the pyrodex, it won't work. Just use the ffg in the pan, it will work, maybe not as quick as ffffg but much better than the pyrodex. Round ball is all you need.
 
Trot is right. If you haven't opened the Pyrodex, return it to your dealer and ask for your money back.

Pyrodex of any kind by itself will work poorly or not at all in your flintlock as a pan prime or as a main powder charge.

If the dealer won't take your Pyrodex back you can use it as a main powder charge but you will have to dump at least 5 grains of real black powder down the barrel before adding the Pyrodex.
The black powder poured in first will act as a "starter" to get the Pyrodex burning.

Your rifle should work fine with one of the shorter bore fitting lead slugs as well as with a patched roundball. It will not work well with the plastic things you mentioned.

The patched roundball is the least expensive way to go and they are very effective hunting bullets out to 100 yards.

Have fun. :)
 
Claude said:
chironomidkraut said:
I am a greenhorn to this forum so please be gentle...... lol
so I just bought a hawkins woodsman...
First, welcome to the Forum. :)

As gently as I can... There's no "i" or "s" in Hawken. :wink:
sorry I was actually eating Hawkins cheezies at the time :grin:
 
Your 2f powder will work in the pan much better than Pyrodex. Pyrodex and flintlocks do not go together. It won't work as the main charge and it won't work in the pan. If you haven't opened it yet take it back and get some 3f black powder. While 2f will work in the pan, 3f or 4f will work much better. By using 2f in the pan, you may or may not notice a slight delay in the ignition. If you use 3f or 4f, the delay is almost non-existant. When everything is right, a flintlock will fire as quickly as a caplock. At least mine do but I use 4f or Swiss Null B in my pan. Another thing that I find helpful is to drill out my touch hole to 1/16 inch. If you choose to do this, be very careful so that you don't wobble it too large. Set your drill on its slowest speed and carefully drill out the hole. High speed photography has shown that putting your pan charge next to, but not covering, your touch hole will give you the fastest ignition.

Forget the sabot bullets. they are expensive and don't work in a traditional muzzleloader like yours. They are designed and intended for use in the inline type of muzzleloaders....but we don't talk about that kind of gun on this forum. Stick with patched round balls. They will serve you much better and will have plenty of knock down power for any kind of deer, elk or antelope you will likely ever be hunting with your rifle.
 
Welcome to the Forum!!!

Simplify your life, use FFF as both your main charge and in the pan...75-90grs is plenty for deer...50grs should be a good target load...
 
I hear tell you can grind 2f, to a smaller particle size, and use it in your pan. Use something like a popsicle stick pressing down against something that won't cause combustion. Might work until you can get your hands on some 3f.
 
As always these guys are giving some sound advice to you here on the forums. For the longest time I was using 3f for my pan, 2f in a pinch. I got ahold of some 4f and like it a lot better for the pan. Main reason for me is if a dryball (Not that I have ever had any experience with this) happens, it's a little easier to get that 4f through the touch hole and hopefully around the back of the ball so I can shoot it out. Pulling a ball just plain stinks, or so I hear.......
 
since I'm lazy I just carry one horn.3f works great to prime.4 f might be faster but after you get used to shoting rock-in-the-locks you soon wont notice any delay. Musket shooters often prime with 2 or even 1 f at times
 
I bought some 4F powder to prime the pan but I really didn't see enough of a increase in speed to warrant the expense.

Loading and priming with 3Fg powder works just fine IMO.

As for getting 3Fg thru the vent hole in the case of a dry ball, it does take a little bit more work than 4F but I rarely dry ball so for the most part I don't think 4F is worth the trouble.
 
2ff will should be fine for prime and main charge.

As a new flintlock shooter with a new rifle two things are going to happen. One is the new shooter is going to go through a learning curve. The other is a new rifle can be finicky at first.

I'll give you two examples in how new guns can be finicky.
My smoothbore always required picking the vent after loading to fire reliably. It was also hard in flints. Now it fires time after time. It fired 19 shots in row and finally needed picking to fire the 20th shot. This was during a 1813 militia light infantry demo. It does fine with 2ff as prime and main charge.

My custom rifle when it was new absolutely hated 4f as prime. It was spotty with 3f but done great with 2f as main and prime. It also ate flints. Now I feel confident that it would fire well with 2f,3f and 4 f as prime. It also is very easy on flints now but that was not the case when it was new.

You'll just have to shoot it to find out what it likes. You'll gain some skill and the gun will break in and improve.
Good Luck
Travis
 
The 28" octagonal performance barrel has a 1 in 48" twist with click-adjustable rear hunting sight.

The 1 in 48" twist is a good twist and is found on many historical rifles. It shoots round balls well and can handle some lead conicals well too. The modern sabots being the exception because they do poorly with that twist.

Since yours is flinter Traditions may have put a 1 in 66" twist barrel on it. If so that's a round ball twist and lead conicals may not shoot well out of it. The exception would be the CW Minnie ball that seems to do well with a slow twist.

I own some custom guns and Traditions flintlocks tend to take a beating on here at times. While they're not the same quality as American made locks they can be good and reliable. The lock on my Springfield Hawken has always been a good little lock.

Be sure to use real knapped flints. Unless you special order from Germany I know of no cut flints that are worth having. Track Of The Wolf has English and French Amber flints for your rifle. To be a good flintlock shooter you need some really good flints.
 
In an earlier post on this thread, I said that I use either 4f or Swiss Null B in my pan. Many moons ago, when we lived in Indiana, I was at Friendship and bought a can of Goex 4f for my, at that time, one and only flintlock. I used 4f for a couple years when a friend if mine in our muzzleloading club told me that Swiss Null B was much better. So, naturally, the next time I went to Friendship, I bought a can of Swiss Null B (OUCH!! on the price). This all happened, as I say, many moons ago. In the mean time, I have done a LOT of shooting with my flintlocks and have acquired more of them and, yet, both cans are still nearly full. I can shoot 4f and Null B in my pans for the rest of my life and never use it all up. I expect my heirs will use the last of the powder in those cans. The point being that even though 4f and especially Null B are more expensive than 3f or 2f, you will not have to buy it often enough for price to be a factor. If you put between 3 and 5 grains, that's the normal pan charge in most all instances, you will get anywhere from 1,400 to around 2,300 shots from a one pound can. So, don't let the added price of 4f or Null B be a determining factor in what to use in your pan. If you want to use one of the pan chargers, you will almost have to use one of the finer powders since 3f will not flow easily through the tiny opening in the valve and 2f will not flow at all. But, if convenience is the issue, I'd suggest that in the future, you buy 3f for your main charge and you can use it in your pan and it will do just fine. That way, you have only one horn to carry. I find my little pan charger to not be inconvenient in any way. It just rides handily in the bottom of my possibles bag and can be very easily identified by feel when reaching into my bag....no problemo!
 
Billnpatti said:
I expect my heirs will use the last of the powder in those cans ... If you put between 3 and 5 grains, that's the normal pan charge in most all instances, you will get anywhere from 1,400 to around 2,300 shots from a one pound can.
You sir sure don't shoot enough! Haha! :)

I 'used' to avg 7 pounds triple-F a year, so no ... my heirs wouldn't inheirit any 4F from me, as it would be gone in only 2-3 years!

But alas, life has gotten in the way and I'm lucky to consume 5-lbs a year now out of my flint smoothies ...
 
Fact is, you cannot actually, "grind" bp to a smaller size. You can crush it up into dust and that is not really a desirable outcome. At one point, the 1970s, there was a powder shortage and 4Fg was impossible to find. A ml dealer in Ohio, E. Christopher Firearms, made and sold these devices to 'grind' bp smaller for priming. They were a total failure. Using 3Fg. or even 2Fg. for priming a flint pan was far more practical.





 
You found your way to a good site for information. lots of experience here, and it is your's for the asking.
Caroline supply in AB is our largest Goex supplier. They may be able to tell you who sells Goex BP in the south . Cabelas has it in Edmonton.

Enjoy the new flinter.
 
petew said:
You found your way to a good site for information. lots of experience here, and it is your's for the asking.
Caroline supply in AB is our largest Goex supplier. They may be able to tell you who sells Goex BP in the south . Cabelas has it in Edmonton.

Enjoy the new flinter.
ya goex bp ffffg is real hard to find, coulda bought some at the cabelas in Saskatoon but traveling to alberta with a volatile load doesn't sound fun to me...
on another note, could someone post a pic of how to place the flint and the correct angle its supposed to be at
 

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