rodwha
58 Cal.
I like larger cigarillos for times that time is short and found the tins to work exceptionally well.
paper cartrages
- Thread starter Mean Gene
- Start date
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The speed loader idea sounds good. Safest for sure.
I would not use homemade paper cartridges in the charge. If you nitrate them with potassium nitrate then the burning paper might cause a grass fire. Non nitrated and nitrated noth run a risk of going off while loading the next one. Potassium nitrate treated paper burns slow, like a fuse. That is not what I want.
Truely nitrated, as converted to nitrocellulose by treating the paper with certain acids, would probably work real well, unless it raised pressures. I have not idea and have not tried it.
Giving the completed cartridges a coat of spray lacquer might be of benefit. Real lacquer is nitrocellulose in a solvent. I have not tried it and can not endorse it. It may jack up the pressure.
If the point of the exercise is to speed loading then I have my own non approved solution. For plinking I do not measure the charge. I eyeball the level as I pour from the flask. I then spin the cylinder to fling off and even up the charges. I then seat the ball as usual and grease. This is probably the fastest way.
I would not use homemade paper cartridges in the charge. If you nitrate them with potassium nitrate then the burning paper might cause a grass fire. Non nitrated and nitrated noth run a risk of going off while loading the next one. Potassium nitrate treated paper burns slow, like a fuse. That is not what I want.
Truely nitrated, as converted to nitrocellulose by treating the paper with certain acids, would probably work real well, unless it raised pressures. I have not idea and have not tried it.
Giving the completed cartridges a coat of spray lacquer might be of benefit. Real lacquer is nitrocellulose in a solvent. I have not tried it and can not endorse it. It may jack up the pressure.
If the point of the exercise is to speed loading then I have my own non approved solution. For plinking I do not measure the charge. I eyeball the level as I pour from the flask. I then spin the cylinder to fling off and even up the charges. I then seat the ball as usual and grease. This is probably the fastest way.
Scota...
I've sometimes wondered whether nitrocellulose paper adds anything to the propellant charge, especially a dangerous over-pressure. I've fired a few hundred .36 caliber cartridges made with the stuff and never noticed anything, but it would probably require a chronograph to be sure.
The thing about nitrocellulose is that its nitrogen content varies, from the mononitrate up to the hexanitrate, with only the higher nitrations being explosive, the lower nitrations form plastics and lacquers, like ping pong balls and nail polish.
I don't see home-made nitrocellulose ever catching on for cartridge making. Nitric acid is on the DEA watch list, proper paper for nitration is difficult to find, and the process is quite dangerous since it can involve the spattering of hot acid, toxic fumes that destroy lung tissue, and the possibility of winding up with the explosive hexanitrate as an unintentional product.
I've sometimes wondered whether nitrocellulose paper adds anything to the propellant charge, especially a dangerous over-pressure. I've fired a few hundred .36 caliber cartridges made with the stuff and never noticed anything, but it would probably require a chronograph to be sure.
The thing about nitrocellulose is that its nitrogen content varies, from the mononitrate up to the hexanitrate, with only the higher nitrations being explosive, the lower nitrations form plastics and lacquers, like ping pong balls and nail polish.
I don't see home-made nitrocellulose ever catching on for cartridge making. Nitric acid is on the DEA watch list, proper paper for nitration is difficult to find, and the process is quite dangerous since it can involve the spattering of hot acid, toxic fumes that destroy lung tissue, and the possibility of winding up with the explosive hexanitrate as an unintentional product.
Mean Gene
40 Cal.
Thanks wicket I really appreciate all your research into paper cartridges I found it very interesting.
I think I will give these papers a try, I was wondering what happened when a cartridge was rammed home. I'm surprised the glass didn't break.
I think I will give these papers a try, I was wondering what happened when a cartridge was rammed home. I'm surprised the glass didn't break.
Mean Gene
40 Cal.
Think I'll try making cartridges for my smoke pole too.
Gene, I used flint glass lab tubing bought on line, the walls are pretty thick. The ramming was done using my drill press. There's a lot of "expert" information floating around out here that's just hearsay, testing things is a good habit to get into, it takes time, but in the end saves time.
Like everybody, I started out making cartridges with tissue weight paper, but found them too delicate and prone to leaving bits of paper in the chamber. I looked into nitration, learned to do it, and switched to a heavier, high rag content cotton paper which makes stronger cartridges that burn away cleanly; pretty much what Johnston & Dow manufactured during the Civil War.
With every solution comes another problem though. The nitro paper I use measures .004 in thickness and adds .008 to the diameter of the bullet. It's not a problem when the cartridge is made with a Lee .380 roundball since the cartridges seat easily and any excess paper is sheared away with the lead ring when the cartridge is rammed. Unfortunately, I have trouble getting the roundballs to glue securely into the cartridge, and object to the trouble it takes to seat a felt wad in the cartridge. I'm also not real happy about having sheared off scraps of nitro paper all over the place.
Enter the heeled Lee .375 conical. It's not a great fit for Uberti revolvers, but works well in Pietas, which is what I mostly own. The conical can be dip lubed, so no messing with wads, and it's easier to glue into the cartridge because it's heeled. The problem is that with .008 of paper wrapped around it, it's tricky to load into the gun since the benefit of the heel is lost to the paper.
I don't reload, and don't have the dies and other equipment that go along with reloading, so my current challenge is to either find a way to modify the Lee mold, or to come up with a die to cut a more generous heel on the bullet right up to the lower lube ring. I have no idea what result this would have, if any, on the ballistics, but it would sure make for an excellent cartridge. 'Course I could buy a custom mold, but where's the fun in that? :wink:
Like everybody, I started out making cartridges with tissue weight paper, but found them too delicate and prone to leaving bits of paper in the chamber. I looked into nitration, learned to do it, and switched to a heavier, high rag content cotton paper which makes stronger cartridges that burn away cleanly; pretty much what Johnston & Dow manufactured during the Civil War.
With every solution comes another problem though. The nitro paper I use measures .004 in thickness and adds .008 to the diameter of the bullet. It's not a problem when the cartridge is made with a Lee .380 roundball since the cartridges seat easily and any excess paper is sheared away with the lead ring when the cartridge is rammed. Unfortunately, I have trouble getting the roundballs to glue securely into the cartridge, and object to the trouble it takes to seat a felt wad in the cartridge. I'm also not real happy about having sheared off scraps of nitro paper all over the place.
Enter the heeled Lee .375 conical. It's not a great fit for Uberti revolvers, but works well in Pietas, which is what I mostly own. The conical can be dip lubed, so no messing with wads, and it's easier to glue into the cartridge because it's heeled. The problem is that with .008 of paper wrapped around it, it's tricky to load into the gun since the benefit of the heel is lost to the paper.
I don't reload, and don't have the dies and other equipment that go along with reloading, so my current challenge is to either find a way to modify the Lee mold, or to come up with a die to cut a more generous heel on the bullet right up to the lower lube ring. I have no idea what result this would have, if any, on the ballistics, but it would sure make for an excellent cartridge. 'Course I could buy a custom mold, but where's the fun in that? :wink:
Mean Gene
40 Cal.
Trying new things makes this sport interesting, if we didn't then it would get boring really fast.
Nice talking with you.
Nice talking with you.
Mean Gene
40 Cal.
Went shooting my pietta 1860 Saturday and used another style of paper cartridge, this one I slipped a paper patch into the cone to make an end cap. This time I didn't have any nipples plug from unburnt paper however I did have to deal with a lot of unburnt paper. So my conclusion on paper cartridges is that they are good for if your carrying in the bush but the rest of the time I think loose powder is less of a hassle.
I have a US Patent depository nearby and the stuff is on micro-phish (sic?). In any event on the original Colt Patent the "paper" is an isosceles trapezoid with the long base on top and the short base on bottom and attached to the short base a round tab that gets folded over the open bottom. That's how I make them- only a single layer of paper against the flash hole- never a problem.
Capping the base is the approach Colt took when he gave up on tinfoil cartridges and switched to producing combustibles, you can actually see the capping paper in photographs of period cartridges.
There's a thread in the archives which treats cartridges pretty thoroughly, and most of the shooters who contributed concluded that cartridges were interesting to experiment with, but of limited practical application for modern shooters.
There's a thread in the archives which treats cartridges pretty thoroughly, and most of the shooters who contributed concluded that cartridges were interesting to experiment with, but of limited practical application for modern shooters.
