Paper Cartridge Danger?

[JohannesKepler]

I'm new to muzzleloaders and I have recently acquired a Bess. I'm just wondering, I have already made up a bunch of paper cartridges for it, as that is the historically correct way to fire it.

Are these less safe than shooting with patch and ball? Is there a chance burning embers from the cartridge would remain in the barrel after a shot, setting off the next powder charge as I loaded it? I have tried to research it but was unable to find a conclusive answer. Thanks

 

[Grenadier1758]

The paper cartridges are not less safe than a patch and ball. I have only shot using a paper cartridge loaded with ball. The major problem I run into is the build up of fouling. The problem I ran into when firing consecutive loads was the build up of fouling. We shoot a slightly lager ball of 0.710" in my musket which has a 0.780" bore. We use historically correct very dirty black powder, Jack's Battle Powder. I don't think any powder other than Elephant could be dirtier. Some where between 8 and 15 shots the bore would become so fouled that the ball would get stuck in the bore. A few drops of water from the canteen would loosen things up enough to finish loading. Firing was soon enough that the water didn't adversely effect firing.

There is a chance of a burning ember. It is low probability. You can put out any embers by running a damp patch down the bore. Not only will you put out any embers, you will pull out a lot of fouling and loading will be easier.

 

[JohannesKepler]

The paper cartridges are not less safe than a patch and ball. I have only shot using a paper cartridge loaded with ball. The major problem I run into is the build up of fouling. The problem I ran into when firing consecutive loads was the build up of fouling. We shoot a slightly lager ball of 0.710" in my musket which has a 0.780" bore. We use historically correct very dirty black powder, Jack's Battle Powder. I don't think any powder other than Elephant could be dirtier. Some where between 8 and 15 shots the bore would become so fouled that the ball would get stuck in the bore. A few drops of water from the canteen would loosen things up enough to finish loading. Firing was soon enough that the water didn't adversely effect firing.

There is a chance of a burning ember. It is low probability. You can put out any embers by running a damp patch down the bore. Not only will you put out any embers, you will pull out a lot of fouling and loading will be easier.

Awesome, thanks for the informative reply! So would you then suggest perhaps every few shots or so to swab with a damp patch? Putting out any embers and cleaning the barrel, effectively killing two birds with one stone?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Yes, I do recommend wiping the bore with a damp patch.

I have also been known to spit on the ball end of a paper cartridge just before loading.

 

[ohio ramrod]

All smooth bores loaded with out swabbing will build up fouling. Which will make loading harder as well as possibly holding a smoldering ember.

 

[LSU520]

For my smoothbores and muskets, I don’t bother with paper cartridges. I have balls of tow, polished round balls and a tin of lube. If I want an extra tight shot I‘ll patch it with paper or a lubed patch.

 

[LSU520]

Yes, I do recommend wiping the bore with a damp patch.

I have also been known to spit on the ball end of a paper cartridge just before loading.

good deal

 

[Crow-Feather]

I'm new to muzzleloaders and I have recently acquired a Bess. I'm just wondering, I have already made up a bunch of paper cartridges for it, as that is the historically correct way to fire it.

Are these less safe than shooting with patch and ball? Is there a chance burning embers from the cartridge would remain in the barrel after a shot, setting off the next powder charge as I loaded it? I have tried to research it but was unable to find a conclusive answer. Thanks

Stump remover, is potassium nitrate, which is used by those who shoot paper cartridges in the 1859 sharps. It is close to flash paper and burns quickly and completely. Take your cartridge paper and soak it in hot water with as much sodium nitrate as will dissolve. let it dry and give it a try. Stump remover is at Lowes and is not expensive.

 

[LSU520]

Stump remover, is potassium nitrate, which is used by those who shoot paper cartridges in the 1859 sharps. It is close to flash paper and burns quickly and completely. Take your cartridge paper and soak it in hot water with as much sodium nitrate as will dissolve. let it dry and give it a try. Stump remover is at Lowes and is not expensive.

I use stump remover mixed with my quenching water when hardening parts, it gives a wonder case hardening color pattern.

 

[TFoley]

Slight drift, but Hickok45 has recently posted a great 22-minute movie on Youtube about shooting paper cartridges, albeit for a Civil War Enfield - great to watch.

 

[JohannesKepler]

Stump remover, is potassium nitrate, which is used by those who shoot paper cartridges in the 1859 sharps. It is close to flash paper and burns quickly and completely. Take your cartridge paper and soak it in hot water with as much sodium nitrate as will dissolve. let it dry and give it a try. Stump remover is at Lowes and is not expensive.

Unfortunately up here in Canada, it's near impossible to come by. I do actually have some, but it's expensive and not sold in any stores. Otherwise, I'd definitely try it.

 

[JohannesKepler]

Yes, I do recommend wiping the bore with a damp patch.

I have also been known to spit on the ball end of a paper cartridge just before loading.

And that patch can just be a simple piece of cotton, yeah? Same as one would use for thoroughly cleaning at the end of the day?

 

[JohannesKepler]

For my smoothbores and muskets, I don’t bother with paper cartridges. I have balls of tow, polished round balls and a tin of lube. If I want an extra tight shot I‘ll patch it with paper or a lubed patch.

I wanted to try out with cartridges since it's a Brown Bess and that is what they were historically shot with, and I already have a bunch made. If they don't work out then I may switch to a different loading method, but I just wanted to know if shooting what I already have would risk me blowing my hand off

 

[Grenadier1758]

The cleaning patch could be a cleaning patch or a wad of tow. In the wiping case the wiping patch or ball of tow needs to fill the bore to wipe off fouling and damp to extinguish embers.

 

[tenngun]

And that patch can just be a simple piece of cotton, yeah? Same as one would use for thoroughly cleaning at the end of the day?

Cleaning patches, bought as such or cotton flannel or cut up old t shirts tend to be too thin and too soft to serve well as patching. Ticking makes good patching. Some hard cloth in about 6 oz weight. A light duck is good.
cannon were loaded with cloth bags and a wet swab was run down between shots. The danger here was bits of bag underneath and behind the powder that wouldn’t be blown out.
Shooting a paper cartridges you want to dump the powder then run the crumpled paper and ball down. This way it’s a wad that is blown clear when you shoot.
In a military setting a soldier had to shoot fast or die. You don’t have to.
Even shooting live cartridges ( with ball) slow down and take your time. Speed is the device of Satan.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Are these less safe than shooting with patch and ball? Is there a chance burning embers from the cartridge would remain in the barrel after a shot, setting off the next powder charge as I loaded it?

As Mike mentioned, there is a very low chance of a "cook off" and a swab between shots (which you should consider doing unless in combat or a "speed match") will mitigate that low risk.

You should also use a horn to prime the lock After you have fully loaded the musket, and not use the combat loading method of priming the pan from some of the powder within the cartridge followed by loading the musket barrel.

You DO have to be mindful of fire danger when shooting a musket. It is more likely when fire danger is high that a smoldering piece of the cartridge will ignite the grass downrange, while a lubed patch will often not continue to burn.

Cartridges should be in a container that is ember-proof, in that no wild sparks/embers will burn through the container to the paper cartridges within.
Leather holding a wooden block was the long time standard, however a tin container was used by American Continental troops during the AWI. Note that a modern steel or plastic ammo can will also "work" but if the cartridges for some odd reason were set off, a well sealed container will probably fragment, while the flap on the cartridge box or tin container will not allow enough pressure to build to burst the container.

..., is potassium nitrate, which is used by those who shoot paper cartridges in the 1859 sharps. It is close to flash paper and burns quickly and completely. Take your cartridge paper and soak it in hot water with as much sodium nitrate as will dissolve. let it dry and give it a try. Stump remover is at Lowes and is not expensive.

While these are the original way to load a Sharps breech loader, or a cap-n-ball revolver...,

Nitrated paper is NOT recommended for smoothbore, muzzleloading roundball muskets. Thick book paper is the norm for the cartridge, and by using nitrated paper in the proper container(s), you invite a stray spark to ignite the charges, especially in an American tin box.

LD

 

[Crow-Feather]

As Mike mentioned, there is a very low chance of a "cook off" and a swab between shots (which you should consider doing unless in combat or a "speed match") will mitigate that low risk.

You should also use a horn to prime the lock After you have fully loaded the musket, and not use the combat loading method of priming the pan from some of the powder within the cartridge followed by loading the musket barrel.

You DO have to be mindful of fire danger when shooting a musket. It is more likely when fire danger is high that a smoldering piece of the cartridge will ignite the grass downrange, while a lubed patch will often not continue to burn.

Cartridges should be in a container that is ember-proof, in that no wild sparks/embers will burn through the container to the paper cartridges within.
Leather holding a wooden block was the long time standard, however a tin container was used by American Continental troops during the AWI. Note that a modern steel or plastic ammo can will also "work" but if the cartridges for some odd reason were set off, a well sealed container will probably fragment, while the flap on the cartridge box or tin container will not allow enough pressure to build to burst the container.



While these are the original way to load a Sharps breech loader, or a cap-n-ball revolver...,

Nitrated paper is NOT recommended for smoothbore, muzzleloading roundball muskets. Thick book paper is the norm for the cartridge, and by using nitrated paper in the proper container(s), you invite a stray spark to ignite the charges, especially in an American tin box.

LD

I must apologize for my error. I have never shot smoothbore rifles and did not know that they required thick paper. I guess that they didn't have American Tin Boxes in the civil war. Best of luck with your smoothbore shooting.

 

[Crow-Feather]

Unfortunately up here in Canada, it's near impossible to come by. I do actually have some, but it's expensive and not sold in any stores. Otherwise, I'd definitely try it.

I have since discovered that it is not such a wise idea anyway. Apparently the smoothbore requires thick book paper and problems can occur if you store you paper cartridges in an American Tin Box. This is per Loyalist Dave and I have no reason to doubt his caution.

 

[Crow-Feather]

I use stump remover mixed with my quenching water when hardening parts, it gives a wonder case hardening color pattern.

Today I learned something. Thank you.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I have a smooth bore but I strictly shoot it as a shotgun. I use paper shot cups and telephone book paper that I crumple up for over powder and over shot wadding. I concern myself more with catching the fields on fire than burning embers in the bore. Thankfully it hasn't happened.