Paper cartridges in cap and ball?

[Robert Egler]

I've been looking at ways to load my (new) Remington NA 1858 faster, other than swapping in a new pre-loaded cylinder, and found directions for making and using combustible paper cartridges. Anyone have experience using these? Does the paper really just burn up, not making a mess in the cylinder?

 

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/263754/

 

[Robert Egler]

Thanks! I did a search because I thought I'd seen this topic on here before, but couldn't find it.

 

[Vairochana]

I make them, they work.
Use a sub calibre dowel to roll the paper behind the ball so you get a nice taper

 

[Many Klatch]

I have been experimenting with combustible cartridges. I soaked paper in Saltpeter and then cut and wrapped the dried paper around a mandrel. The paper was glued together with waterglass. It works.

I can see that there is a pretty steep learning curve to getting it right. The paper that I was using doesn't burn up completely, probably because I couldn't find any 16 pound 100# cotton paper but was using paper made with sugarcane residue. I was uncomfortable with the glowing embers in the chambers after firing. I had to make sure the cylinders were empty before reloading.

I think once I get all the bugs out it will work good. I am going to try using cigarette paper next.

Many Klatch

 

[crockett]

1. Buy cigarette paper and cut to a trapazoid shape- long base (with the gummed area) upward and a "trap door" on the short base.
2. Make a TAPERED dowel mandrell.
3. Wrap the trapazoid around the mandrel- long base on top and short base with trap door on bottom. Use a glue stick to join the sides. The gummed area is on top and inside.
4. Use glue stick to attach trap door over back of mandrel- this creates the paper case.
5. Fill with powder chanrge.
6. Add bullet and lick top of paper- the moisture goes through to activate the glue and attach the paper case to the base of the bullet- BE CAREFUL or gentle in setting this aside until the glue dries.
7. These cases are fragile so store in an altoid can lined with tissue paper. At the range keep the can CLOSED so stray sparks cannot accidentally land on the cartridges.
8. Just load and fire- the percussion cap is powerful enough to blast through tin foil and newsprint- no problem at all blasting through the cigarette paper- the purpose of using a minimal amount of paper is to reduce fouling. You will still get some ash in the chamber and since it could harbor an EMBER that will EXPLODE the next combustible cartridge- inspect closely before reloading.

 

Thanks! I did a search because I thought I'd seen this topic on here before, but couldn't find it.

I used Advance Search in the Handgun forum only and searched for "paper".

 

[Blue Hill]

There's a very good article by Tom Kelly on the Old Civil War Guns website. I've never tried it, but he makes it sound easy. Go to the site and find the Tom Kelly index. It's in the articles that he wrote in 1995. Complete with pictures. I'm going to give it a go.
Kelly states in his article to make sure to puncture the cartridges through the nipple hole to make sure you get good ignition. If I'm to use cigarette paper for cartridges, I would think that the cap charge should burn right through the cigarette paper without having to bother with the pre-puncture. Does anyone have any experience or an opinion on this part of the picture?
Blue

 

[crockett]

Blue Hill- I've done a lot in this area so I will relate my experience- others may have had different happenings. To start, I thought the flame of the percussion cap had to "burn through" the flamable paper to ignite the powder inside the paper case. I then did some research. Sam Colt came up with these cartridges almost as soon as he came up with the revolver. The big problem was any type case that would hold an ember- if you put powder or a paper treated cartridge into a chamber with an ember- the cartridge could explode right into your face. Colf therefore opted for tin foil for the case.
Tin foil? thinks I?? I thought the flame of the cap had to "burn through" the treated case.
The only foil I could find that was thin enough is the foil (paper backed) used to wrap some candies. Nowadays mylar might be used so the foil is hard to find. In any event I made up a bunch and VOILA! they all went off like a charm. The force of the cap was more than enough to rupture the case and explode the powder. The only problem was the foil didn't burn up very well. I loaded another round over the residue- still worked, a third round- I might get a misfire in 1 out of six rounds because the tin residue was plugging the flash hole. Forth round BIG TROUBLE- there was so much residue that I got the conical about 2/3rd of the way in but there wasn't enough room to seat it. I couldn't pull it out and I couldn't rotate the cylinder because the end of the conical was sticking out.
Well Sam Colt ran into the same problem. He ended up using nitrated fish gut but today cigarette paper works fine. I have used blank newsprint which is three times thicker than the cigarette paper and the cartiridges will still ignite from rupture. The purpose of the nitrate treatment is to burn up the residue so that it cannot hold an ember. BUT even with cigarette paper- still look in the chamber to make sure.
In any event I don't know where this idea originated that you had to tear open a paper cartridge but it is not needed.
Besides the fun of fooling around with this ammunition it also works out well as originally intended- a convenient source of ammunition. Rather that packing a flask, bullet bag, etc along on a trip- just take an altoid can of combustible cartridges.

 

[Blue Hill]

Thanks Crockett. I suspected as much.
Blue

 

Crockett --

Well done.

 

[Many Klatch]

Crockett, I made up some paper cartridges that were tapered to fit into the cylinder easier. I think that when I pressed the ball in tightly that the smaller sized paper cartridge broke open and filled the the larger cylinder. So the cap did not have to burn through the paper, the paper was already smashed open. At least that was my guess.

Many Klatch

 

[crockett]

That's sure a possibility on the very thin cigarette paper but remember that on the foil cases I always got 100% ignition- the unburnt residue was the problem, and also on the newsprint- which is 3 times heavier than the cigarette paper- always 100% ignition- as long as I used a trapezoid shape piece of paper with the little trap door that fits over the tail end of the case. If you look at Sam Colt's original patten- that's the way he had it- the little trap door. Dixie Gun Works catalog shows another method where there is a lot of folded up- wadded cigarette paper at the tail end of the cartridge. I've never made any that way but maybe there is so much material that it absorbs the impact of the percussion cap and you get a delay on ignition. In any event of the trap door style you have less material which yields less residue and the single layer trap door always ruptures from the percussion cap. I made a little cardboard template I keep with the wood dowel in a spare Altoid Can and use the template when cutting the paper. The dowel has a line where I place the front end of the cigarette paper when rolling the case. The glue stick seems to work well and is easy to use.
Normally I load from a flask and use balls. The combustible stuff is for the range as a variety or to pack with the gun when I'm in the woods.

 

[RLBishop]

Hey, Squirrel Tail. Here's a really neat video of a guy making and then firing the paper cartridges for his 2nd model Dragoon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8CF3h1PkMk

:thumbsup:

 

[Robert Egler]

Thanks! Very interesting :hatsoff: