Paper cartridges

[Magungo1066]

Hello all, Merry Christmas! I have a few questions about making paper cartridges for a smoothbore. I have a 16 gauge that I want to make paper cartridges for. Any tips/tricks that you guys have experienced? I would like to be as historically correct as possible. A former kit is out of the question for a 16 gauge I think. Any do's/dont's that you have come across?
My second question is a historical one. Is there any evidence of citizens (ie militia) making their own cartridges at home? I know militia requirements usually called for a nominally "musket sized" bore to accommodate paper cartridges, but would these have ever been home manufactured specific to one man's gun? Thanks!

 

[Magungo1066]

Apologies mods I just discovered that a thread a few below mine has been discussing paper cartridges in length...The second part (the historical question) still stands though! Thanks

 

[Grenadier1758]

To ensure uniformity, the paper cartridges were assembled by artificers of the artillery unit. Individuals did not make their own cartridges. Cartridges were issued on an as needed basis. Civilians would have had a container (powder horn most likely) of powder, wadding to hold the ball and their own flints. Not much evidence of civilians (or soldiers) making their own paper cartridges.

 

[Magungo1066]

To ensure uniformity, the paper cartridges were assembled by artificers of the artillery unit. Individuals did not make their own cartridges. Cartridges were issued on an as needed basis. Civilians would have had a container (powder horn most likely) of powder, wadding to hold the ball and their own flints. Not much evidence of civilians (or soldiers) making their own paper cartridges.

Thank you so much! Exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Jay Templin]

Here in Virginia the militia laws in effect through the 18th century often specify that the militia must have cartridges.

1738 “every footman [as opposed to horsemen in the previous line] shall be furnished with a firelock, musket, or fuzee, well fixed, a bayonet fitted to same, or a cutting sword or cutlass, a cartouch-box, and three cartridges of powder…”
(The same text was used again in 1755. By 1757 the wording was changed to “three charges of powder,” and that Act was continued in ‘59. In 1762 it was amended (no change to ammunition requirements), continued in ‘71, and lapsed in ‘73. In ‘75 it was updated to require raising companies of riflemen in the western counties.

1777 “every non-commissioned officer and private with a rifle and tomahawk, or good firelock and bayonet, with a pouch and horn, or a cartouch or cartridge box, and with three charges of powder and ball…”

1785 “every non-commissioned officer and private with a good, clean musket carrying an ounce ball, and three feet eight inches long in the barrel, with a good bayonet and iron ramrod well fitted thereto, a cartridge box properly made, to contain and secure twenty cartridges…”

Magungo, you need a former? What size ball?

Jay

 

[Walkabout]

I actually shot some round ball paper cartridges out of my 10 bore today, which I made using a Brown Bess template with just string, no glue. I also made some shot cartridges using just a 5" paper square with glue. For speed of loading they worked well, but I got the impression that down range performance might not be optimum at longer ranges. They didn't seem seal over the powder as well as I would like. More experimenting to follow. FWIW

 

[Loyalist Dave]

My second question is a historical one. Is there any evidence of citizens (ie militia) making their own cartridges at home? I know militia requirements usually called for a nominally "musket sized" bore to accommodate paper cartridges, but would these have ever been home manufactured specific to one man's gun? Thanks!

Well, sometimes in Maryland the militia commander was issued materials, and authorized to pay people to assemble cartridges. Sometimes the commander was issued supplies and told to make the supplies into cartridges, and sometimes they got ready made cartridges

June 1st 1780

We therefore direct you to give Orders to the Select Militia of your County to march immediately to George Town on Patowmack the Place of Rendezvous and there to remain Subject to our further orders. And we also request you to order all the Militia in your County who can be well armed and accoutred to hold themselves in readiness to march at a moments warning. [they have ammo if they can immediately march]

Circular to the Lieutenants of Charles Prince Georges Montgomery Frederick Washington, With this Addition to the Lieu' of Montgomery. ..., As the Enemy under Lord Cornwallis are making as rapid Progress thro' the State of Virginia, and in all Probability will invade this State, it is absolutely necessary that we should be as well prepared as possible to receive them on an Invasion, we therefore direct you will have all the Arms in your County immediately repaired and put in good Order, and have 20,000 Cartridges immediately made up, for which Purposes you will hire as many Hands as you may deem necessary. You will send directly to this place one thousand weight of Lead and six barrels of musquet Powder to be delivered to Mr Shaw. We request you to make a full return of Military Stores in your Charge as soon as possible.


Thursday 22d March 1781

That the Armourer deliver to Colo Elijah Robosson five pound of powder and twenty pounds of Shott or lead for the use of the Militia of Ann Arundel County and to be accounted for. That Capt. Phileman Warfield [this was to be made into musket rounds] ..., deliver to Capt Deale two Chests of Arms No 6 & 7 containing sixty stand of Arms [60 muskets w/bayonets] and No 2 containing fifty nine Cartridges Boxes and Bayonet Belts, also six hundred Muskett Cartridges and one hundred and twenty Flints to be delivered over to Colo John Weems for the use of the Militia of Ann Arundel County.

LD

 

[Jay Templin]

Well, sometimes in Maryland the militia commander was issued materials, and authorized to pay people to assemble cartridges. Sometimes the commander was issued supplies and told to make the supplies into cartridges, and sometimes they got ready made cartridges

June 1st 1780

We therefore direct you to give Orders to the Select Militia of your County to march immediately to George Town on Patowmack the Place of Rendezvous and there to remain Subject to our further orders. And we also request you to order all the Militia in your County who can be well armed and accoutred to hold themselves in readiness to march at a moments warning. [they have ammo if they can immediately march]

Circular to the Lieutenants of Charles Prince Georges Montgomery Frederick Washington, With this Addition to the Lieu' of Montgomery. ..., As the Enemy under Lord Cornwallis are making as rapid Progress thro' the State of Virginia, and in all Probability will invade this State, it is absolutely necessary that we should be as well prepared as possible to receive them on an Invasion, we therefore direct you will have all the Arms in your County immediately repaired and put in good Order, and have 20,000 Cartridges immediately made up, for which Purposes you will hire as many Hands as you may deem necessary. You will send directly to this place one thousand weight of Lead and six barrels of musquet Powder to be delivered to Mr Shaw. We request you to make a full return of Military Stores in your Charge as soon as possible.


Thursday 22d March 1781

That the Armourer deliver to Colo Elijah Robosson five pound of powder and twenty pounds of Shott or lead for the use of the Militia of Ann Arundel County and to be accounted for. That Capt. Phileman Warfield [this was to be made into musket rounds] ..., deliver to Capt Deale two Chests of Arms No 6 & 7 containing sixty stand of Arms [60 muskets w/bayonets] and No 2 containing fifty nine Cartridges Boxes and Bayonet Belts, also six hundred Muskett Cartridges and one hundred and twenty Flints to be delivered over to Colo John Weems for the use of the Militia of Ann Arundel County.

LD

That’s awesome! I’m not aware of similar orders here, but so many of our records were lost in 1781 and 1865 that I’m surprised that we know anything about anything!
Jay

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

The only fowlers that would have been accepted into service had to be nominal musket sized bore guns, so roughly .69 or .75.

In short, no, odd-sized (such as your 16 gauge) fowlers were never used with paper cartridges during the war, and individuals never made there own. They were made by arsenals and all would have been standardized in size.

 

[tenngun]

I’ve made paper cartridge for my TFC using a .575 and cartridge paper from Samsons historical.
We don’t have documentation for civilians using paper cartridge
Maybe, likely, civilians never did, but when the frontier was hot and most people had smoothbores on the frontier could a man have had two or three quick shots in his bag.
Probably not.
However I have given it a try in my civilian gun of 5/8 bore, less then musket
Bore sized.
I won’t tell anyone it was done, but just maybe?
Most people in colonial times didn’t hunt, and were not exposed to frontier depredations
So the militia man who turned out may have had little experience actually shooting his gun.
Still did someone give it a try when he might need a quick second shot knowing such a thing was done?
I would point out the famous loading on the run was done with loose powder and unpatched ball.
So if a person like Kenton not using a paper cartridge in his bag when he was living in danger it argues against a civilian trying it.
But for S&G I’ve given it a try.

 

[bud in pa]

I also use a 575 ball with 70 gr. of 3f . I bought an art paper tablet for the cartridges. The paper is fairly stiff, I use it because it stands up to rough handling. I get a 4 to 5 inch group at 50 yds.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

One trick that was done was to plop a ball in one’s palm and pour powder atop it until just covered. Then it was poured down the bore with the ball following, and a wad of wadding thrust lastly.

Very fast, historically correct, and no paper cartridge needed.

If anyone has any documentation of paper cartridge use in civilian fowlers in any context outside militia use, and only those of “musket” bore, I’ve yet to here or read a single shred of compelling evidence it was ever done.

The bottom line is all extant data points that non-military bore sized civilian fowling pieces were not used with paper cartridges. 16 gauge was not a military size at that time, nor 20.

These guns would have either not been accepted into service, or would have had to have been loaded with loose powder and ball until the properly sized bore gun could be obtained in order to use the standardized musket cartridges.

The idea guys were rolling their own paper cartridges with the ball that fit their individual bore of the family bird gun is simply fantasy.

 

[Clark Badgett]

The only fowlers that would have been accepted into service had to be nominal musket sized bore guns, so roughly .69 or .75.

In short, no, odd-sized (such as your 16 gauge) fowlers were never used with paper cartridges during the war, and individuals never made there own. They were made by arsenals and all would have been standardized in size.

Don’t be so hasty, and never say never. A 16 gauge is roughly .66” +/- which is usable with English carbine bore cartridges and a regulation .69 cal ball was .640”.
Also all the way up until the end of the AWI, the Congress was having to procure balls in at least 5 sizes.

 

[tenngun]

One point of note would be ball size
Paper rolled in to a cartridge is pretty thick. If you shoot a .595 or . 600 ball in a .62 paper wrapped will be as tight as a patched ball, and as slow to run home. Especially in the more humid east it will get stuck after a few shots
Trading companies provided ball on the frontier and of a size it could work in a paper cartridge in trade guns. Running about 4 calibers smaller then the bore.
No I don’t offer that as an idea that frontier folk and Indians were making paper cartridges
Just a thought to muddy the waters

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Don’t be so hasty, and never say never. A 16 gauge is roughly .66” +/- which is usable with English carbine bore cartridges and a regulation .69 cal ball was .640”.
Also all the way up until the end of the AWI, the Congress was having to procure balls in at least 5 sizes.

Interesting. Do you know what sizes?