paper cartridges

[bigted]

just watched several u-tube video's about these snifty looking paper cartridges. they look interesting but i am wondering at the historic value of them. also if historic ... then where may i get some more info on building them and shooting them in my 36's.

the last video i watched ... feller made his outta a single sheet off a double sheet of toilet paper ... pretty thin and according to him ... the tissue burnt and caused no trouble. the powder was never exposed to the air till the cap burst thru the same single layer of the thin tissue paper.

more info needed please.

 

[bpd303]

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/286709/fromsearch/1/hl/cartridges/tp/1/

 

[bigted]

yep ... today i went out and experimented with the lil buggers and im in the same camp as others ... just pouring in lose powder and smashing a ball into the cylinder is just too easy for me and i find that speed wise it seems like just about a draw for how fast a 6 round reload is made in a '61' colt 36.

makes em look cool on a video ... but in practice i think i will stick with the tried n true. IT WORKS EVERY TIME.

 

[wayne terry]

Dixie Gun Works makes a pamphlet on how to make you own paper cartridges for C&B revolvers, you use cigarette rolling papers.

 

[Alden]

It's probably the closest thing around the corner but I BELIEVE Dixie had nitrated cart paper, no? Old Western Scrounger once...

Buffalo Arms may:
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Nitrate_Paper_it-779003.aspx?CAT=3801

Make your own though if ya can find some very thin quality paper -- kinda like making slowmatch.

 

[wayne terry]

Yea if you can some 100% cotton typing paper at a office supply shop you can soak it in salt peter hang it up to dry and then cut it to shape if need be.

 

[bigted]

guess it wont hurt to acquire some rollin papers ... think i still remember how to find em ... LOL

they should be better then the onion skin i used today.

be fun to have some on hand but i dont really see me setting round rolling up 50 or 100 to go shooting ... the lose powder is just too easy to use ... but ... :idunno:

 

[AZbpBurner]

About 40 years ago I made a tapered dowel, got some ZigZag papers, a can of Potassium Nitrite, and set off to make some paper cartridges.

Rolling the paper around a tapered dowel makes an easier to load paper cartridge, but nitrating the paper doesn't guarantee it will 100% combust and not leave any smoldering residue.

After finding partially burned paper, some still with live spark, I settled on tearing the paper open and pouring the powder, then crumpling the paper as an over the powder wad, then seating the ball.

Magician's flash paper is pricey, and not durable enough for the task.

I long ago decided that it's not worth the extra work to not only make the paper cartridges, but to also ensure there's no burning residue prior to pouring in powder for the next load.

Of course, you're welcome to go out there to re-invent the wheel. Nobody yet has posted acceptable results, but, who knows, you may be the first.

 

[rodwha]

I used American Spirits papers and never noticed any embers smoldering, though I did notice about 1-3 chambers with paper residue left behind. I did eventually try reloading without removing to find if it was a problem, and after 3 cylinders didn't notice any and quit.

I tried nitrating my papers, but that became more to deal with than I wanted.

Since then I bought the "speed loaders" that DGW offers.

 

[ccmountainman]

Been rolling my own several years.
Like anything takes practice to get good at it.
I roll up a 100 or so as needed. fill with powder tie open end shut.
Nice when out shooting. Just grab 1 or 6 slip in chamber, wad and ball or projectile.
Less fumbling with the flask and measure etc.
These days for ease of use I just use zig zags.

Yes they are historically correct.
A prepared cartridge was used with muskets and rifles back in the 1600's. Perhaps earlier.
In the 1800's there was a special tinfoil and linen and paper and natural rubber depending on the gun.

 

[crockett]

Exactly, I think the word is finally getting out. For a long time there was this idea the paper was treated to burn so the flame of the percussion cap could "burn through" the paper case and ignite the powder charge. That is untrue. The whole deal is to totally consume the paper so no live embers remain in the chamber that would EXPLODE another combustible cartridge as it is being loaded into the gun.
There has been a lot of how to make the combustible cases- an isosceles trapezoid shape of cigarette paper rolled around a tapered wood dowel and glued with a stick type glue and a trapdoor to fold over the bottom- that works well.
BUT.... the cigarette paper is NOT equal to the stuff made originally. The original cases were sometimes treated with several compounds whose residue was corrosive to the gun and you would not want to use it. The military didn't care- rapid reloading was more important.
Historically the military pretty much used nothing other than combustible cartridges. The Army loading manual explained how to reload from a flask but I've tried to find Army issued flasks, balls, etc. and haven't found anything.
For field use, rather than make combustibles you are better off making small, re-useable paper tubes with caps and put the powder charge in the tubes and carry loose balls, caps, pre-lubed wads- all in an Altoids can. Much safer, more accurate, won't break as the paper cases can on occasion.

 

[bigted]

awesome. I "rolled" 6 the other day with zig-zag papers and they worked well. did find some paper left tho so am wondering if a nitrate solution painted on ... as was mentions ... would suffice.

I now have 12 of the paper cartridges loaded and instead of cutting off the twisted tail ... I just left em there in the thought of tearing off the tail and pouring in the powder then using the rest of the paper glued to the ball for my wad.

interesting stuff. it is getting faster and easier to do now so maybe I am on the rite track. thanks for all the ideas and experiences.

would like to hear more of your experiences with these lil buggers.

 

[crockett]

I think if you do the twisted tail there might be so much paper in the back of the shell that you may have to tear it open. That isosceles trapezoid shape with the trapdoor. There is a US Patent depository near where I live so I looked at Colt's original design and it was similar. Colt used a round tab shape on his trap door but I make mine square. In any event, you are left with just a single layer of paper at the back of the case and with the straight blast of the percussion cap into the chamber- I've never had a problem, 100% ignition just loading "as is" without tearing the paper or making a hole, etc. The cap blast goes right through the single layer of paper. I've used blank newsprint using the same pattern. The newsprint is about 3 times thicker than the cigarette paper and I had about 100% ignition- if I recall back when I did the testing, there might have been say 2 or 3 out of 100 rounds that didn't go off. I also used very thin foil (foil was Colt's first material) and even with the foil I got about 70% ignition without making a hole or tearing the case and the foil I used was not of the quality that Colt got from Germany. The foil was pretty neat but there was so much residue that after 3 rounds you could not fully seat another round- the tip of the conical protruded beyond the end of the chamber and then the chamber couldn't rotate- the barrel was blocking it- big mess. As I understand Colt had the same problem but only after about 6 rounds instead of three. The foil he used must have been much thinner. The foil was used because it was water proof and would not burn or hold an ember. Colt finally convinced the military that a paper case put into a small water proof box would give the same protection- hence the paper case.