Paper patched bullets?

[walley]

I'm still in the dark on this paper patching bullet method. I searched here, Google, and Youtube'd it, and I still haven't found much detail on the subject. So if you guys would be so kind as to explain it to me ,I sure would appreciate it.

For example: What type/types of paper are used for paper patching?

What are the advantages or improvements one's trying to achieve by paper patching?

Is it strictly used for smooth bores, or used in rifled bores as well?

Do you use a filler or wad behind PP bullets?

Thank ya much.

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOur questions indicate you REALLY don't know anything about paper patched BULLETS.

No, they are not used in smoothbores.

Yes, they are used in rifles, and that is what shoots BULLETS, PROVIDED, that the Rate of Twist of the rifling, and the Groove depth, is compatible with using Paper Patched bullets.

As for the kind of paper used, ITS THIN. Some use onionskin. Some use cigarette papers. Dixie Gun Works, for instance, sells paper, as well as a template to use in cutting the paper patches for some bullets.

Our Expert on using and shooting PP bullets on Game is IdahoRon. I am sure he will give you guidance, if you send him a PT.

Basically, you want a barrel with a fast ROT and shallow grooves, to use with PP bullets. The bullets have to be sized below BORE diameter, So that there is room to wrap the paper around the bullets. Often, shooters choose to use a cast bullet that has a hollow base where the twisted end can be folded.

At the slower velocities of Black Powder rifles, and even the substitutes, you need a fast Rate of Twist to give the bullets Rotational stability, where in smokeless powder guns, higher velocities provide that higher rotational stability for jacketed bullets. The modern smokeless powder guns use a MUCH Faster ROT for those bullets, compared to what we call " fast" for PP lead bullets fired in BP rifles.

By fast, I am thinking in terms of 1:32", to 1:16". A .223 cal. modern cartridge sending a 62 grain bullet out the muzzle at 3400 fps, will have a ROT of 1:7", instead, by comparison. lead bullets generally need to be kept below 2000 fps in most calibers, for best accuracy. As you increase the caliber, the weight of the bullet increases, and recoil becomes a major factor in how accurately the shooter can consistently place the bullet on target down range.

The benefit of shooting paper patched lead bullets instead of plain lead bullets, is that YOU CAN get higher velocity with the PP bullets, without worrying about gas cutting, or lead stripping in the grooves, when velocities exceed 1600 fps. Since the paper is between the bullet, and the bore, you also get no leading of the bore, making it easier to wipe out just the powder residue from BP, or some substitute.

Ron has posted many pictures of his targets shot with his PP bullets, showing outstanding long range accuracy, using Pyrodex RS as his propellant of choice. He also has taken Elk, Mule Deer, and other large game species with his rifles, using PP bullets. The ranges at which most of his game are shot are substantially further than those we Eastern Whitetail hunters are used to seeing game with our PRB loads. I don't think Ron can get any argument that he has chosen the right tool for the job he needs to do to fill a game tag where he hunts. Whether you need to use PP bullets where you hunt is a different matter, for you to decide.

I have some commercially made PP bullets for my cartridge .45-70 BP rifle. The bullets were sized down to .450" diameter, and with the paper patching, they fill the .458" diameter bore properly. That should give you a better idea of the concept underlying paper patching bullets.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Thanks Paul.
Here is a couple of writeups I did I hope it helps. If you have any questions feel free to ask Ron

Since first writing this I have updated it a little. I first posted this quite a while ago but from time to time I am asked to give some info so I will post it again.
________________________________________________________________________
Part 1

Here is some very poor quality pictures and a description of how to wrap a bullet; sorry I am not a pro at writing.
Before I got to this point, I poured probably 200 bullets to get 75 perfect ones. I grade them for looks and weight. Any bullets with visible flaws are melted again and every good bullet that I keep is +or - .5 grains of the target weight sometimes I get even pickyer and go for +- .3 This gives me a constant product, AKA bullet, compare that to TC maxiballs or maxihunters. The lead I use is from a company called Rotometal. I get the pure lead, and it measures right at 5 to 6 BHN on my hardness tester. I used to use a bottom pour lee production pot for pouring lead. I quit using the bottom pour because the bullets didn’t come out like I wanted. I went to ladle pouring the bullets and the bullets come out a LOT better and the bullets are filled out better and the weight is more consistant.
Some guys wrap their bullets with wet paper. Most of them have undersized bullets, and are getting a bullet that fits perfectly after wrapping and are not sizing after they wrap the paper on the bullet. I would like to get a mould that would throw a bullet .446 and about 380 to 400 grains. RCBS has a mould like that but I have WAY too many moulds right now. I need to sell a couple I don’t use first.
Back to wrapping the bullets.
A lot of guys use a bullet wrapping board. I just use my fingers. In this first picture you can see the size and the shape of the paper, the paper adds about .008” to the diameter of the bullet before sizing.

In these picture you can see the way I am starting the bullet into the wrap.

As I roll the bullet on I keep the paper tight as I can. When the paper rolls all the way on the two ends should meet and not overlap.

When I get the ends to meet I start to twist the tail.

With a hollow base bullet you can then push the tail into the base of the bullet. This picture is quite blurry sorry.

When I get to this point I run them through the sizer die and this is what the finished bullet looks like for the 45 cal 386 gr lee 459-405-HB and some others.

Part 2

On my 50 cal my gun likes bigger bullets than .504 but I size the Paper patched bullets to .501 this gives me a bullet that goes down with resistance but not real hard. After hunting with these bullets for a couple of years I know they will not come off the charge.
My 45 is .458, and it likes bullets that are .454 naked. I size these to .451 I could probably go to .452 for a finished size but the .451 load well and are very accurate. I don’t use any lube on the paper when I am sizing the paper patched bullet. The reason is the lube can and does cause the paper to rip off the bullet when seating the bullet. I size dry and add some lube when I am target shooting but leave them dry when I am hunting.
Here is a target that shows the benefit of the paper patch.

This is the rifle. It is a TC Renegade with a 32” long 1-18 twist Green mountain barrel. The sight is a Lyman 57 SML peep, and a Lee Shavers globe front sight with a level and long distance BPCR inserts. At 200 yards I can aim at a milk jug and put the front pin on the jug and see jug all the way around the front sight. It doesn’t cover up much of the target.

This is a couple of targets from one of my 50’s. The bullet was a 500 S&W bullet made with the Lee bullet mould.

This is the rifle, it is almost the same as the other one. I made this rifle for my son to someday shoot a moose with if he ever draws.
It is a double triggers TC Renegade with a 1-28 twist 50 cal Stainless steel Green Mountain barrel. The rear sight is the same as the other rifle. The front sight is a Lyman 17 AML. This is the rifle I shot the buck with later in the article.

I started to think a couple of years ago that Hornady would someday quit making the 410 gr 50 cal Great plains bullet, turns out I was right. That’s what started me to thinking about making my own bullets. I started out not doing the paper patch. I just got discouraged with my lead bullets because I was not getting the groups I wanted out of my rifles. I found an article about paper patching and wanted to try it. Since then I have played with paper type, bullet hardness, you name it I tried it. One thing I have found is paper patch bullets sometimes need a wad between the bullet and the powder, I make my own. I use a 3/8 pipe nipple and sharpen one end for the 45. For my 50 I use a 1/2 “ pipe nipple. I then cut out my wads out of wool felt I get from a fabric store. The 3/8 pipe will cut a wad that measures about, .505
The 1/2" pipe with cut a wad about .507 to .508. I like my wads to be oversized to make a sure seal and not let any gas get around the wad. I lube the wad with Hornady Great Plains lube. I also use the Hornady lube on the bullet before I load it.
One thing I have found is when you paper patch a bullet you get higher velocity from your normal charge. In the picture above you can see that the point of impact raised when I shot the paper patched bullets.
For me the paper patching has opened up my options in what I can shoot in my rifles. These days it seems like everyone is going to sabots. While I have had good luck with them we can’t use them to hunt here in Idaho. So I needed to find another way, and the factory conicals in my opinion are either great or crap. I love the Hornady Great Plains 410 gr 50 cal. Here is a TC bullet I found in one of my packs I bought.

With this kind of bullet out there I had to try to make my own. I hope I can help other guys that are looking for a different way to get good shooting bullets.

And last the final product of the paper patching. Here are a couple of bucks that a friend of mine and I killed with paper patched 460 gr 500 S&W bullets. My buck (the bigger one) was shot at a little over 100 yards. The bullet was a pass through and was not found. The buck of my friends was a quartering shot to him at 120 yards. The bullet hit the shoulder breaking the main bone in the shoulder. The bullet went on to travel through the buck and it exited out the flank on the opposite side. The buck dropped at the shot and the bullet exited and was never found.

His rifle is a TC whit Mountain carbine with a 1-38 twist. He has not done a lot of testing with his gun he just used my load. My load is 80 gr of Pyrodex P, a 460 gr paper patched bullet, and an over powder wad.
I tested this load a bunch in my rifle. I also have an Ohler 35 chronograph so I know what the rifle is REALLY doing .

velocity foot pounds of energy

muzzle 1310 1753

100 yards 1165 1387

150 yards 1108 1255

200 yards 1061 1151

250 yards 1022 1067

300 yards 988 997

I hope that this gives a little info on the paper patched hunting bullet. If you have questions feel free to ask. Ron

 

[walley]

Gentleman you both done an outstanding job of explaining and demonstrating the idea behind the paper patched bullets. A very interesting read indeed. I watched a gentleman on youtube fire a paper patched mini ball from a banded musket. He didn't explian or elaborate why he used the PP method on the mini ball, nor what the purpose of it was. But anyway, my way of thinking was that the paper would burn off the bullet upon ignition unless it was a special paper, or being treated with something to protect it prior to loading.

Ron,
Impressive deer and target pics btw. :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

While there is no doubt that the paper 'tail' at the rear of the cartridge burns away, the paper that is trapped between the body of the slug and the bore is not exposed to the high temperature powder gasses.

Many paper patched bullets do use a paper that shrinks after it is exposed to water but it is not fire resistant.

I use 'dress pattern' paper which measures between .001 and .0015 thick.

My method of paper patching the slugs I shoot in my Schutzen is to obtain undersize, ungrooved slugs made for paper patched bullets.
These are .008 under the rifles bore size.

The ends of the paper strip are cut at a 30 degree angle and at such a length that they will wrap around the slug two times, leaving about a 1/16 inch gap between the starting end and the 'outside' end.

I lightly spray the paper with water before wrapping the bullet and twisting the 'tail'.
Once dried, the paper shrinks to an absolutely "skin tight" fit.
Once wrapped, the outside diameter of the finished patched bullet is about .002 under the guns bore size.

I do not lubricate the patched bullet until I am ready to load it into the barrel because oil will soften the paper and cause it to tear as it moves into the muzzle.

To lube the paper I use a 50/50 mix of Vasoline and bees wax.

The following photo shows some of my bullets wrapped and unwrapped.

 

[tiger955]

I am a little, or maybe more than a little, less than knowledgeable about paper patching so bear with me.
I am under the impression that they can only be used with breech loading guns. Can a paper patch be used in a muzzle loader? I would think pushing a snug bullet down the barrel would tear up or dislodge the thin paper patch.

 

[Zonie]

My Schutzen is a muzzle loading rifle designed to shoot paper patched bullets. It was made from a 'kit' from Pecatonica River.

You are right about muzzleloading these paper patched bullets. The patched bullet must be smaller than the barrels bore size or it will rip the paper. It is also very important to wipe the fouling out of the bore after each shot.

Elongated bullets when made from pure lead will expand enough when they are shot to totally seal the clearance that existed when the bullet was rammed down the barrel.

As for dislodging the paper, that is the reason I use a paper that will shrink when it dries. It is very tight on the bullet. So much so that one has to tear it to get it off.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I am a little, or maybe more than a little, less than knowledgeable about paper patching so bear with me.
I am under the impression that they can only be used with breech loading guns. Can a paper patch be used in a muzzle loader? I would think pushing a snug bullet down the barrel would tear up or dislodge the thin paper patch.

First, Zonie that is a cool rifle.
I am loading them in a hawken and three Renegades. Muzzleloaders were the first ones to use paper patched bullets. The paper I use is 25% cotton paper. It is very tough but if lube is on it too long it will make it go bad. I used to lube the patched bullets when they went through the sizer. What happened was the paper tore off whrn I loaded them. I quit lubing them as i sized them and only lube when I am at the range. Most of the time I don't use lube at all. I use a over powder wad so the bottom of the bullet never sees any fire. When the bullet comes out the barrel the paper shreds and comes off the bullet. Ron

 

[CaptainKirk]

Can you use the paper patch in a BPCR (say, .45-70) or is this a ML-only trick?
I also shoot a Browning High Wall in 45-70 Gov't...

 

[Zonie]

A great many of the original black powder cartridges were loaded with paper patched bullets.

Those really interested in the subject should try to get a copy of "THE PAPER PATCHED BULLET- A Reloading Manual for Black Powder Cartridge Rifles" by Randolph S. Wright.
Your local library may have a copy or you can buy your own at Dixie Gunworks. Follow this link
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3358

 

[LRB]

Zonie, you are the kewlist. You never cease to amaze me in your range of knowledge, and exprience in ML guns. Most of the time. :thumbsup: :hatsoff: :bow:

 

[MSW]

Ron,

Thanks for the post... i gotta give that a try!

 

[nkbj]

Can you use the paper patch in a BPCR (say, .45-70) or is this a ML-only trick?
I also shoot a Browning High Wall in 45-70 Gov't...

My brother's favorite single shot 45-70 deer load was a swaged 500 grain paper patched spire point that shot sub-1/2 moa. Worked pretty good too on crows, hogs, bobcats, whatever.
His High Wall was lost along with his front door and safe. He still grieves but I think his short term memory is improving.

 

[henbrook]

He still grieves but I think his short term memory is improving.

How is that??Did the theives get his weed stash also? :grin:

 

[nkbj]

He still grieves but I think his short term memory is improving.

How is that??Did the theives get his weed stash also? :grin:

You know, he worried me with the amount of recoil he was soaking up. Now he's gonna get another one. Can't resist the way that slow heavy soft lead dumps big critters.

 

[brubincam]

-----I had a H&R single shot break open 44mag --I paper patched lead bullets with typing paper-- :idunno:

 

[paulab]

Ka boom...You have to match the bullet with the proper rifling twist. Longer, heavier bullets require a faster twist. Example: 530 grain .45 cal.bullets require a 1:18 twist. >40 cal. 400+ grain bullets require a 16 twist. .38 cal. 300+ gr. requires 1:15 twist. cheers Paul
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz94/paulbehe/Picture111.jpg http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz94/paulbehe/Picture327.jpg

 

[Jblk]

Our members have done a great job with sharing their knowledge of the paper patched bullet.For more information you can go to Greybeard Outdoors site and they have a forem dedicated to this subject.

 

[ResearchPress]

Paper patched bullets were typically used in long range muzzle and breech loading match rifles. Some patch grease grooved bullets, but a paper patch designed bullet is smooth sided.

David