Paper-Patching, In a Muzzleloader?

[Secesh]

This question is tied to the thread I posted on “The Gun Builders Bench” regarding my under-hammer build I’m starting. My intention is to replicate the style of a mid-19th century target rifle that coule have been utilized during the Civil War. Answers to my question below will help me decide on what caliber, .50 or .45, fast or slow twist rate for conical or round ball.

Has anyone ever heard of paper-patching a conical bullet in a muzzleloader? Wouldn’t this be a redundant operation, with no benefit to accuracy since the patched bullet will be making two trips through the barrel and thus increasing the damage to the patch or is this feasible? I’m just brainstorming here.

I have heard, don’t know if it is gospel truth, that some of the sharp shooters who used custom made target rifles during the Civil War loaded conical bullets rather than a patched round ball due to the conical being easier and faster to load. I’ve done some research on this but haven’t come up with anything to answer my question.

 

[leadhoarder]

I think IdahoRon and possibly IdahoLewis have posted videos doing just that. A quick search produced this:

 

[Secesh]

I think IdahoRon and possibly IdahoLewis have posted videos doing just that. A quick search produced this:

Thanks! I feel real dumb! Never thought about looking on YouTube

 

[dave951]

During the Civil War, the PRB wasn't commonly used and then in smoothbores. The Whitworth and custom target guns often used paper patch conical.

 

[stikshooter]

This question is tied to the thread I posted on “The Gun Builders Bench” regarding my under-hammer build I’m starting. My intention is to replicate the style of a mid-19th century target rifle that coule have been utilized during the Civil War. Answers to my question below will help me decide on what caliber, .50 or .45, fast or slow twist rate for conical or round ball.

Has anyone ever heard of paper-patching a conical bullet in a muzzleloader? Wouldn’t this be a redundant operation, with no benefit to accuracy since the patched bullet will be making two trips through the barrel and thus increasing the damage to the patch or is this feasible? I’m just brainstorming here.

I have heard, don’t know if it is gospel truth, that some of the sharp shooters who used custom made target rifles during the Civil War loaded conical bullets rather than a patched round ball due to the conical being easier and faster to load. I’ve done some research on this but haven’t come up with anything to answer my question.

As today and back then the important thing shooting long(or short for that matter ) was hitting your target ! Conicals do it farther than round balls and to a sniper hitting was the goal , not speed as the troops in the front were more concerned with speed (obviously) . Paper patch was used a lot back then and still is in competition /target thou not as often in hunting situations but shooting cast is more involved than the masses like anyway!/Ed

 

[fleener]

PP in .45 cal is very common, more so then .50 cal.

I shoot a 530 grain PP bullet in .45 cal. The dia. of the finished bullet is just tight enough in the clean bore to almost slide down with the weight of the steel loading rod. The goal is to not damage the paper going down. Once fired the bullet will upset, engaging the rifling and the paper will be shredded leaving the bore.

I have 3 ML target rifles that I use PP in and one double ML. All .45 cal.

Do some poking around the net for english sporting rifles. Go to Dave's site, he has a wealth of information. Research Press

There are a handful of PP ML shooters on this forum.

Fleener

 

[Secesh]

40 years ago, think I was 16 or 17, I got started in muzzleloading, bought an EMF Kentucky rifle and joined a local club where we would have monthly competition shoots. I used to place 2nd or 3rd, regularly, with that rifle but I could never beat out the older guys because they were shooting custom built rifles with barrels like Badger or Green River and such. As I got older and graduated into putting the more complicated kits together my success at the events got better. I enjoyed the heck out of it. Quickly, I began concentrating more of my time on girls rather than shooting and I stepped away. I’ve always hunted but more using modern rifles and shotguns where you can run into the gun store, snatch up a box of cartridges and you’re off! Certainly not true scenario today. In the past I had read a little bit about black powder cartridge shooting and although it was definitely interesting, I never got into it.

I’ve spent too much time in the modern age of convenience and innovation and I’m sort of relearning or catching up on the things or information I took for granted back in that gap of time which was created by being away from home 80% of the time while working a job. Wish I had spent more time with the older guys in that club, that has long since passed into memory only, and memorized their techniques.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Has anyone ever heard of paper-patching a conical bullet in a muzzleloader? Wouldn’t this be a redundant operation, with no benefit to accuracy since the patched bullet will be making two trips through the barrel and thus increasing the damage to the patch or is this feasible? I’m just brainstorming here.

I have heard, don’t know if it is gospel truth, that some of the sharp shooters who used custom made target rifles during the Civil War loaded conical bullets rather than a patched round ball due to the conical being easier and faster to load. I’ve done some research on this but haven’t come up with anything to answer my question.

Second part first, technically, the minnie ball was a conical designed to speed up the reload. The "three band" Enfield was reported to be very accurate and (iirc) used that conical bullet. I don't know if those credited with long range hits with it patched it with paper or not.

Now as to paper patching a conical, well in the first half of the 20th century, IF you were going to win anything shooting at 220 yards (40 Rods)... it was a paper patched conical bullet that you used. I don't think it was that new an idea. Did it go back to the ACW ?? That's a good question....

See The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle by Ned Roberts for details.

LD

 

[Secesh]

PP in .45 cal is very common, more so then .50 cal.

I shoot a 530 grain PP bullet in .45 cal. The dia. of the finished bullet is just tight enough in the clean bore to almost slide down with the weight of the steel loading rod. The goal is to not damage the paper going down. Once fired the bullet will upset, engaging the rifling and the paper will be shredded leaving the bore.

I have 3 ML target rifles that I use PP in and one double ML. All .45 cal.

Do some poking around the net for english sporting rifles. Go to Dave's site, he has a wealth of information. Research Press

There are a handful of PP ML shooters on this forum.

Fleener

I’ve unknowingly put myself at a great disadvantage because I had always thought that paper-patching was more of a technique used for cartridges. I used a tightly patched round ball exclusively back in the day. Never tried anything else because the accuracy was great.

 

[Erwan]

I am not a big fan of paper patching, but all the beginning I learned was with this book and the rest by my own experience (maybe that can explains this ) :

 

[52Bore]

Paper Patch with Conicals really started with Whitworth in the 1850’s with a 52bore (0.451”).
Rifle is an American UH to show for OP.

 

[Secesh]

52Bore,
That’s a great example. From what I have heard and read about the Whitworth, it was very hard to beat.

 

[ResearchPress]

Has anyone ever heard of paper-patching a conical bullet in a muzzleloader? Wouldn’t this be a redundant operation, with no benefit to accuracy since the patched bullet will be making two trips through the barrel and thus increasing the damage to the patch or is this feasible? I’m just brainstorming here.

Paper patching cylindrical bullets prevents leading. Typically when loaded, at least in so far as applied to the British rifles such as the Whitworth or Kerr (that saw Civil War use), the patched bullet is fractionally smaller then the bore size and loads without damage to the paper. On firing, the bullet expands to the rifling depth; as it travels back up the bore the rifling scores the paper such that it falls away from the bullet as it exits the barrel, and does not diminish accuracy.

The more conically shaped picket bullet used in early American Target rifles had less bearing surface, and used false muzzle and ram rod that fitted the bullet nose to assist maintaining alignment of the bullet as loaded. I think these tended to use cloth patch and rifling depth to suit, but my knowledge on these rifles is limited.

The Enfield rifle cartridge effectively paper patched the Minie bullet that was used in the British service rifle. Paper patched bullets were used well into the breech loading era - look up the Martini-Henry for example - eventually being replaced by jacketed bullets.

David

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

If you’re reading this and don’t own Ned Robert’s The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle, do yourself a favor and order it tonight. It’s an incredible work.

 

[Secesh]

If you’re reading this and don’t own Ned Robert’s The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle, do yourself a favor and order it tonight. It’s an incredible work.

Thanks for the recommendation! I just bought a copy of the enlarged version. Well, my wife is going to get even less work out of me now.

 

[nkbj]

That book should come with a drool bib.

By the by, another plus for paper patching is that with a push-through sizer it lets you adapt various molds to your rifle.

 

[SamTex1949]

paper patching in this link, check out the special made false muzzle piece
https://www.dedinski.com/verkauf/ge...whitworth/billinghurst-rifle_cross_patch.html

 

[fleener]

Farmer

Are you in the USA? Where? End of March is the Creedmoor 150 match in Oakridge TN that Rick Weber host. Great match and a good time. I drove 28 hours round trip last year just to attend and have fun as my shoulder issues did not allow me to shoot.

We will be shooting out to 1,000 yards with PP and grease groove bullets.

If you think these rifles are cool and you like history, dig into the Creedmoor matches that were held between the USA and Irish. David has a book that he has written on it and another is if memory serves me correctly, "Irish Riflemen in America"

Fleener

 

[sodbusterr]

220 yards is not equal to 40 rods!

 

[sodbusterr]

220 yards is not equal to 40 rods!

I stand corrected