Parker Hale 3 Band 1853 Enfield

[Shaw11b]

So I received my Parker Hale today and am trying to find the manufacturing date and if this is an Italian made or English made. The barrel is marked Parker Hale Birmingham England. The serial number is 31643 and the lock plate reads Parker hale and has a crown mark over a PH. The only thing is the trigger guard says made in Italy. Can anyone point me in the direction to find out if this was made in Italy or England. From what I’ve read there were hybrids with PH barrels and EuroArms stocks but also that some PH were fully made in Italy. Help please. Thank you in advance

 

[Whitworth]

Pull the barrel from the stock and look for Italian proof marks and date code. Like many things you hear some are true, some false and a lot questionable. Somewhere I have read reference to Armi San Palo ( later EuroArms) supplying Parker Hale with finished rifles, sold under the Parker Hale name. Hence they are Parker Hales, just made in Italy My Whitworth's barrel is stamped Parker-Hale, #35xxx has the same tiny "Made in Italy" on the trigger guard and has Italian proofs from 1999 on the underside of the barrel. The bridle in the lock bears a faint P-H and the stock has the P-H cartouche. That's as far as I can help.

 

[TFoley]

Parker-Hale ENTIRE rifles numbered up to just over 9000.

A number of Parker-Hale barrels WITH breech plugs - IOW, proofed barrels actually proofed in Birmingham England, stamped crown over BP [Birmingham Proof] and with a cypher giving the date of proof, and a description of the charge - usually 90gr of black powder, and the bullet - usually 535gr .577calibre were also stamped ion the underneath of the barrel. The breech plug will have a different serial number, as they were batch-made separately.

All this changed at around 14000, when ALL P-H manufacture ceased, and the assets were sold off to Euroarms in Italy. Any barrels remaining were without breech plugs, and could not be proofed in Italy without one. These guns began a new serial number series, of which your gun is one, with an Italian breech plug and proofed in Gardone Val Trompia - loacation of the Italian national proof house. It will also have little shield depicting the coat of arms of the city, surmounted with the crown of the Republic of Italy, and the word 'black powder only'. The date code is a couple of letters in a small square box. I recently posted a list of all Italian date codes up to 2030.

Your barrel is a P-H barrel, but as with a few of the early Whitworth rifles sold by Pedersoli, this is all there is of Parker-Hale.

 

[Shaw11b]

Parker-Hale ENTIRE rifles numbered up to just over 9000.

A number of Parker-Hale barrels WITH breech plugs - IOW, proofed barrels actually proofed in Birmingham England, stamped crown over BP [Birmingham Proof] and with a cypher giving the date of proof, and a description of the charge - usually 90gr of black powder, and the bullet - usually 535gr .577calibre were also stamped ion the underneath of the barrel. The breech plug will have a different serial number, as they were batch-made separately.

All this changed at around 14000, when ALL P-H manufacture ceased, and the assets were sold off to Euroarms in Italy. Any barrels remaining were without breech plugs, and could not be proofed in Italy without one. These guns began a new serial number series, of which your gun is one, with an Italian breech plug and proofed in Gardone Val Trompia - loacation of the Italian national proof house. It will also have little shield depicting the coat of arms of the city, surmounted with the crown of the Republic of Italy, and the word 'black powder only'. The date code is a couple of letters in a small square box. I recently posted a list of all Italian date codes up to 2030.

Your barrel is a P-H barrel, but as with a few of the early Whitworth rifles sold by Pedersoli, this is all there is of Parker-Hale.

Here are the pics of the underside of the barrel but I can’t make out the proof marks

 

[TFoley]

Please take pics with the barrel horizontal, not tapering away into unfocused oblivion. Like this - Top, Whitworth - bottom .577cal Musketoon

These stamps on your rifle read - indecipherable black powder only - these are the words used on Italian-made firearms. It MUST also have Italian proof marks on it, usually on the right-hand side of the barrel.

 

[Shaw11b]

Please take pics with the barrel horizontal, not tapering away into unfocused oblivion. Like this - Top, Whitworth - bottom .577cal Musketoon

View attachment 139639
View attachment 139640

These stamps on your rifle read - indecipherable black powder only - these are the words used on Italian-made firearms. It MUST also have Italian proof marks on it, usually on the right-hand side of the barrel.

View attachment 139641

First off, thank you for all your help. Sorry for the poor pictures hopefully these are better. So it does look like the markings on the barrel plug have a PN and a coat of arms like you said. So if I’m correct the only Parker Hale portion is the barrel? Also the lock plate is stamped Parker Hale with a crown and a PH underneath. I could not find any other markings on the barrel except for 2 small proofs which I can’t make out by the black powder only markings.
So would this musket still be considered a Parker Hale or a euroarms and did I overpay at 1150 shipped? Thanks again

 

[TreeMan]

First off, thank you for all your help. Sorry for the poor pictures hopefully these are better. So it does look like the markings on the barrel plug have a PN and a coat of arms like you said. So if I’m correct the only Parker Hale portion is the barrel? Also the lock plate is stamped Parker Hale with a crown and a PH underneath. I could not find any other markings on the barrel except for 2 small proofs which I can’t make out by the black powder only markings.
So would this musket still be considered a Parker Hale or a euroarms and did I overpay at 1150 shipped? Thanks again
View attachment 139654View attachment 139655View attachment 139656View attachment 139657View attachment 139658

All of the important parts are Parker hale. Targets won’t know it has an Italian step daddy. Enjoy it and don’t stress the few Italian parts. In todays prices you shouldn’t feel bad about what you paid.

 

[Whitworth]

Looks like you have a pre EuroArms rifle built by Armi San Palo. I see the circle DGG letters of their trademark. As I stated before it is a "Parker Hale" just built by ASP to be marketed under the Parker Hale name, like "Winchesters" made in Japan. As to price, a ratty P-H 1853 near me is priced at $1600 with the bayonet lug broken off. Enjoy your rifle.

 

[TFoley]

I agree with all the above. The best part of the rifle is the REAL P-H barrel - the rest is window dressing. As for the price - you did well.

Shoot it in good health!

A few points I'd add for future reference, concerning the proof marks -

1. English reference states that this calibre in .577". US parlance calls it a .58cal.

2. English black powder proofs are in drams or grains. A dram is just over 27 grains. The British service load for the P53 rifle was two and one half drams of fine rifle powder - whatever THAT was. We usually round it it out to 70gr. The US service load was just 60gr.

3. The stamps on the tang are crown over PN = pulvero nero - Black powder, and as I mentioned a few posts back, the coat of arms of the city of Gardone Val Trompia surmounted by the star of the Republic of Italy.

 

[Stantheman86]

$1150 is just fine, a new or gently used Armi Sport will run over $1200 in today's market.

The barrel being Birmingham produced Parker-Hale is the win here, that makes this rifle a cut above a 100% Italian repro. You get the Progressive Depth rifling and superior steel of the Birmingham barrels vs the Italian barrels with non-Progressive rifling made of milder steel.

The lock being Italian is no big deal. What does the lock do anyway, pop the cap? As long as the trigger is usable I'd not even worry about it.

I have a Parker Hale P53 with a Birmingham barrel and lock and a Euroarms stock. I could care less, it shoots like a dream.

 

[Stantheman86]

It looks like my .451 Volunteer rifle is also a P-H Birmingham / Euroarms hybrid , but the barrel is Birmingham produced which is all I really care about.

 

[user 55620]

In the U K, Henry Krank sell various types of BP. Their own is classed as Fine, Medium and Coarse. I use Swiss#2 in my Volunteer. I think I use it in everything else as well.