Patch Burn Out

[n.h.schmidt]

Hi
In testing various powder charges in my Mountain Rifle 50 cal,I'm now starting to get some holes in my patches. I use Pillow Ticking of .019 thickness and .490 cast balls. At 64 gr. of FFG or RS pyro the patches looked great,could have shot them again.Accuracy is good but, I wanted a little flatter shooting for the Bp matches I go to. I went up to 70 grs (checked on a scale)and that's where I'm starting to see the burns. Sometimes in the center other times closer to where it meets the ball at the barrel. I know I can use a felt wad or even a second patch sent down the tube first. This I know will stop the burn outs. What I would like to know is this. Would the type of patch lube help control the burn outs too? I usually clean between shots so a build up is not a problem. I have been using Hoppeys NO9+ patch lube . I like the way it makes loading easy. I would try the grease type lubes if that would help. Just want to know what to use. thanks Ned

 

[twotoescharlie]

Ned, try a 50/50 mixture murphys oil soap, neatsfoot oil, (not neatsfoot compound) wet patches good,squeeze out excess. no wiping between shots, if using for a hunting load, put a dry felt wad between powder and patched ball.

TTC

 

[Swampman]

Folks who need felt wads are shooting balls that are too big, and patches that are too thin. Try olive oil. It works.

 

[nchawkeye]

Keep experimenting...I had a similar problem a few years back, I kept changing patches and various lubes until the problem went away...I am now a firm believer that folks that use wads, nesting, extra patches, unless using an extremely high powder charge, haven't yet done enough homework...

 

[paulvallandigham]

When you use the subs, you have to remember they burn at a much higher temperature than does Black Powder, and you are going to see burning of the patches sooner using that powder. 3Fg power will burn hotter, than 2Fg. You don't say how long you have owned the gun or how many rounds you have shot through it. If you have put less than 200 shots through the barrel, its possible you have microscopic burrs on the edges of the lands that are cutting your patching, partial, as the ball is pressed down the barrel. Then its much easier for the slight increase in powder to burn holes through the weakened spots.

My suspicion, based on what you have told us, is hat the front edge of the lands at the muzzle crown are too square, and you need to round them off by polishing the crown using emery cloth and a round wooden backer. A file handle, or anything with a round nose, small enough to enter the muzzle of the rifle a bit, will work just fine. Take the barrel out of the stock. and hold the barrel across your thighs, and the handle and emery cloth into the muzzle while you role the barrel back and forth with your other hand. This will keep the polishing handle square to all the lands and polish them evenly.

Test the muzzle crown thesis FIRST, by taking a strip of patching fabric, put it on the muzzle so that there are good lengths of fabric on both sides, and center a ball. Go ahead and lube the patch as you normally do. Use your short starter to push the ball down flush with the muzzle, but then, set the short starter aside, and use both hands to pull up on the patch to pop the ball out. Now, examine the back of the patch to see what, if any damage has been done to the fabric by the front of the lands. If you find small partial tears, or cuts, my theory is confirmed. If not, the tearing is the result of something on the lands down in the barrel.

If the latter, use a damp patch over a bore brush covered with toothpaste, to polish the bore. You can use JB Bore Cleaner, if you have it, of course, but I would not spend the money for it with just this one job in mind. The Abrasives in toothpaste will do the job for you. Keep moving the coated patch up and down the barrel- at least 50 strokes, examining it every 10 strokes or so to add more toothpaste if needed-- to see if the patch is turning Black. If so, you have been removing fine steel bits from the bore. About 100 strokes should be enough to polish the bore, and remove any burrs. Inspect the cloth patch to see if any of the fibers are being caught by the burrs. If not, you are done. Most of the time, you should be able to feel studders as you pull the patch out of the barrel if a rough spot is tearing the fabric. work that area extra strokes until its no longer sticking. Change the patch if it turns black. You don't want steel particles roughing up the surface you have just polished smooth! Patches, water, or gun oil, and toothpaste are cheap.

When you have it cleaned out, fire it again a few times. If the burned patch problem is gone, you have won.

Make sure you are lubing the patch adequately with Hoppes. Its a liquid, and some shooters are a little too stingy with it, or don't want to get their hands dirty!

Take towels, soap and water in a jar or bottle to wash your hands when you finish shooting at the range. You are going to get dirty, shooting black powder, or the subs, no matter what you do. Old rags, T-shirts, tack clothes, paper towels, old threadbare hand towels, etc. all work for this kind of job. A small bottle( 2 oz.) of liquid detergent can go to the range in your range box, and can be used to clean the barrel, or just used with water to clean your hands. The water can go in a plastic container, like an old milk carton, or glass jar, or in a canteen. Carring water in your car is probably a good safety equipment you should have there, anyway.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Try backing your patch DOWN to .015 VS .019. Less friction will allow more powder w/ less "burn through".
Of course other issues MAY arise with new formula BUT its an option.

 

[Dphar]

Hi
In testing various powder charges in my Mountain Rifle 50 cal,I'm now starting to get some holes in my patches. I use Pillow Ticking of .019 thickness and .490 cast balls. At 64 gr. of FFG or RS pyro the patches looked great,could have shot them again.Accuracy is good but, I wanted a little flatter shooting for the Bp matches I go to. I went up to 70 grs (checked on a scale)and that's where I'm starting to see the burns. Sometimes in the center other times closer to where it meets the ball at the barrel. I know I can use a felt wad or even a second patch sent down the tube first. This I know will stop the burn outs. What I would like to know is this. Would the type of patch lube help control the burn outs too? I usually clean between shots so a build up is not a problem. I have been using Hoppeys NO9+ patch lube . I like the way it makes loading easy. I would try the grease type lubes if that would help. Just want to know what to use. thanks Ned

Try a 495 ball or change patch material. My 54 had a fit of this a few years ago but it was apparently the material it was pretty random and not does not do it at all.
I would go to Neatsfoot oil or something that actually lubricates.
A 50 should shoot 90-100 grs with no problem.

Dan

 

[roundball]

I would try the grease type lubes if that would help. Just want to know what to use. thanks Ned

You might try lubing patches with Natural Lube 1000, or just buy a couple bags of TC prelubed patches.
I just use nominal size .490" balls in my .50cal, with .018" pillow ticking lubed with NL1000 for 50-70grn Goex 3F target loads.
For 100-110grn Goex deer hunting loads I add an Oxyoke prelubed wad over the powder as a firewall, which also tightens my groups some as well...in either case I never have burned patch issues.

 

[tg]

How much difference in the groups was there between the light and heavier powder loads?
These are not realy stoput loads and you have a fairly thick patch,a different lube may help but always judge the group before the patch condition.

 

[n.h.schmidt]

Thanks everyone
I will give these things a try. Accuracy has been good even with the loading that produced the burn outs. I am at about 200 or so shots being fired from this barrel. I did start out steel wooling the barrel right from the start ,in hopes of avoiding cut patches. They don't seem to be cut as far as I can tell.A friends GPR has been slicing patches ,I know what that looks like. That one has been getting better though.I only had one patch with a burn near the compressed part of the patch. The other burns were dead center of the patch. Looks like the experimenting will never end. Ned