mississippi
32 Cal.
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do i need a pacth if i shot conicals
patch & conical
- Thread starter mississippi
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jtmattison
70 Cal.
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No. Conicals are designed to be fired without a patch. Some folks get better accuracy using a wad between powder and bullet but experimentation is needed to see if it helps your rifle. Make sure you buy the proper conical for your rifle.
Huntin
Huntin
The idea behind the conical bullet is that once it is fired, it will expand and fill the rifling, sealing the bore as it goes...
This is why muzzleloading bullets (non-sabot types) have undersized bands on them (except for the forward bearing band), the blast from the powder exploding upsets the base and shortens the bullet as it fills the grooves on it's way out...
If it was patched, it could not do this...
Now you could, in theory, patch an undersized bullet, say a .50 caliber bullet in a .54 caliber barrel...
Don't have a clue as to how this would shoot though...
This is why muzzleloading bullets (non-sabot types) have undersized bands on them (except for the forward bearing band), the blast from the powder exploding upsets the base and shortens the bullet as it fills the grooves on it's way out...
If it was patched, it could not do this...
Now you could, in theory, patch an undersized bullet, say a .50 caliber bullet in a .54 caliber barrel...
Don't have a clue as to how this would shoot though...
If your conical is straight-sided you'll need paper patching.
Very few rifles or molds out there for these, and they're usually cartridge firing breech-loaders.
If the bullet has grooves or knurling, it should be lubed.
Very few rifles or molds out there for these, and they're usually cartridge firing breech-loaders.
If the bullet has grooves or knurling, it should be lubed.
30 years ago I purchased a TC Hawkin in .45 cal.It shot good with a round ball but not great.It shot well with most conicals but not great.Then I stumbled upon a bag of Civil war style minnie balls in .45.they shot real well and I got the bright idea to try and patch them for a tighter fit.Amazing accuracy after they were patched.It ain't supposed to work but it did.As I recall 80 gr 3 f goex a .10 cotton wonderlubed patch and she was dropping deer like a trooper. :results:noah
RussB
45 Cal.
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FWIW...Paper Patching Muzzleloaders is once again becoming a fast growing sport in my neck of the woods. I have done it with moderate success, and others are doing it with results that will amaze you.
It would appear to me that once the method is perfected, ie having the right "size" bullet (Conical), and right thickness of paper patch, along with proper application , the results at 150 yds, and beyond, are much better than one can get with conventional loadings.
Check this out;http://www.members.shaw.ca/bobschewe/
Back in the 1960's in El Paso, Texas a few of us tried this very same thing. In those days black powder shooting of any kind was for those adventurous enough to just go out and do it....seems the only information available was second hand, hand me down, information that would never stand up under application. :crackup:
Our goal was to come up with a muzzleloader load that would take Antelope out to 200 yards. The prefered caliber was .45 for this, and only a few of the rifles available to us showed much promise at all.
(Back in those days there were Antelope in the Hueco Tanks area, and even out in the Donna Anna Valley....prime residential area's today.)
Although we had a lot of fun I don't think we got anywhere near the results that you can easily get today with all the information / help that is available on the internet.
Anyway, it is doable. And, it is a lot of fun. :results:
Russ
It would appear to me that once the method is perfected, ie having the right "size" bullet (Conical), and right thickness of paper patch, along with proper application , the results at 150 yds, and beyond, are much better than one can get with conventional loadings.
Check this out;http://www.members.shaw.ca/bobschewe/
Back in the 1960's in El Paso, Texas a few of us tried this very same thing. In those days black powder shooting of any kind was for those adventurous enough to just go out and do it....seems the only information available was second hand, hand me down, information that would never stand up under application. :crackup:
Our goal was to come up with a muzzleloader load that would take Antelope out to 200 yards. The prefered caliber was .45 for this, and only a few of the rifles available to us showed much promise at all.
(Back in those days there were Antelope in the Hueco Tanks area, and even out in the Donna Anna Valley....prime residential area's today.)
Although we had a lot of fun I don't think we got anywhere near the results that you can easily get today with all the information / help that is available on the internet.
Anyway, it is doable. And, it is a lot of fun. :results:
Russ
Guest
squirrel hunter- NEED? - no - unless you've spent $80.00 to $150.00 for the mould, it is unlikely you have a conical mould that requires any form of a patch.
: Most conicals have grease grooves that do require a BP lubricant be applied. There are many of these on the market- some guns, being more finicky than others, have a definite preference for lube. Some of the lubes are available in stick form, to fit lube sizers. SPG, Lyman BP and OXYOKE Stick lubes are like this. The OxYoke is bore butter, stiffened somewhat for use in a press like the RCBS Lube Sizer or Lyman's 450. Any of these lubes can be purchased at TRACK and as they are in a stick form, are easily used to apply lube to bullet's grooves by hand. They're stiff enough to stay well, resist being wiped off easily like the really soft lubes yet lubricate the bore and soften the fouling very well, just as they were designed. I use all three of them, and like them very much. The OxYoker, of course, smells like dessert.
: Most conicals have grease grooves that do require a BP lubricant be applied. There are many of these on the market- some guns, being more finicky than others, have a definite preference for lube. Some of the lubes are available in stick form, to fit lube sizers. SPG, Lyman BP and OXYOKE Stick lubes are like this. The OxYoke is bore butter, stiffened somewhat for use in a press like the RCBS Lube Sizer or Lyman's 450. Any of these lubes can be purchased at TRACK and as they are in a stick form, are easily used to apply lube to bullet's grooves by hand. They're stiff enough to stay well, resist being wiped off easily like the really soft lubes yet lubricate the bore and soften the fouling very well, just as they were designed. I use all three of them, and like them very much. The OxYoker, of course, smells like dessert.
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While I was paper patching some 45cal bullets for my 45-70 Black Powder rifle, my Uncle came by with a pack of White buck buster bullets I had asked for,and an idea came to mind. I had some .0011 patch paper so I cleaned the lube off one bullet and made a rough patch. I lubed the patch then I placed the bullet on the muzzle of my gun and found it snug but easy to push in with my thumb. A session at the Range showed the first "Patched" bullet shot in the same place as unpatched follow up shots. So my first shot was with these "Patched" bullets and regular bullets were used for a second shot if need be. This holds the bullet right where it should be right on top of the powder and will not move and enables me not to foul the barrel before loading them. My Uncle was so impressed he has me patching 460's for him.
All lube is cleaned from the bullets, a soft tooth brush helps do this. Patches are wrapped Dry with alittle bit of Wonder Lube rubbed on after patching, the tails are left on until just before loading. We put the bullets back in the Tubes that White bullets come in. When you are ready to load just snip the tail off as close to the base as you can and load.
I no longer use these but my uncle still continues to use them patched. And the biggest buck I've ever shot was taken with one of these patched bullets. :thumbsup:
All lube is cleaned from the bullets, a soft tooth brush helps do this. Patches are wrapped Dry with alittle bit of Wonder Lube rubbed on after patching, the tails are left on until just before loading. We put the bullets back in the Tubes that White bullets come in. When you are ready to load just snip the tail off as close to the base as you can and load.
I no longer use these but my uncle still continues to use them patched. And the biggest buck I've ever shot was taken with one of these patched bullets. :thumbsup:
